EP045 – Art Can Never Be Satisfied w/ Holly Herrick

Holly Herrick is all about the film-life—as the Head of Film for Austin Film Society and Doc Days festival founder / programmer, she’s at the center of Austin’s film community, but this SXSW finds Holly wearing a new hat: first-time documentary producer.

FIRST THEY CAME FOR MY COLLEGE, directed by Patrick Bresnan, chronicles the 2023 “hostile takeover”—their words—of New College of Florida by Ron DeSantis and his Christo-fascist cronies. Holly’s a New College alum. She saw the press getting the story wrong and did what any reasonable person in her position would do: panicked. But a call to Margaret Brown gave her some confidence, and together with fellow alum Harry Hanbury, decided to make a movie.

No big deal… hahaha… just squeeze-in a first feature with a full-time job running a non-profit and two-screen cinema, overseeing awards shows and grants, & two invite-only artists’ labs (scripted & doc), all while raising two small kids. Holly Herrick is living proof: with enough caffeine, anything’s possible….

We love this walk, because we never get enough time with Holly (busy busy lady), but today she’s all ours as we stroll through the flowering native plants of Mueller Lake Park taking inspiration from this powerhouse of gettin’ shit done—psychosis, be damned.

Plus: Dave Hickey on art and laziness, Jean Luc Godard on women, and Holly on: knowing your why.

DISCUSSION LINKS

FIRST THEY CAME FOR MY COLLEGE (2026) | A WOMAN IS A WOMAN (1961) | BREATHLESS (1960) | WINNEBAGO MAN (2009) | TOWER (2016) | JOIN OR DIE (2023)

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Caffeine-induced psychosis as a lifestyle philosophy 00:49 Introducing Holly Herrick and Austin Film Society 03:30 AFS origin story—Linklater, the old airport, and Mueller 08:30 AFS Cinema as Austin’s repertory art house 11:30 Doc Lab and Doc Days—what they are and how they work 17:30 “Community”—the most used word on Doc Walks 21:30 Austin Public—public access TV as democratic infrastructure 26:00 Programming as art, not science—Holly’s philosophy for Doc Days 33:00 How Holly got into film: New College, Sarasota, and the accidental programmer 38:30 Dave Hickey, Air Guitar, and why art can’t afford to be lazy 41:00 JOIN OR DIE, Bowling Alone, and democracy through community 45:00 FIRST THEY CAME FROM MY COLLEGE—origin of the project 49:00 The hostile takeover of New College of Florida 55:00 Patrick Preston as director and the Food Forest gardening club 1:01:00 Hopes for the film—what Holly wants audiences to understand 1:04:00 Festival run: True/False, SXSW, and beyond 1:08:00 Lightning round—Godard, knowing your why, and Wendell Berry

Let's start with what Holly said to me in line for coffee, which is your goal today

is to get caffeine induced psychosis.

Is that right?

Caffeine induced psychosis.

I have one plan for the day, not the only, and I, to which I

said that's my plan every day.

That's the way I live.

I was on a call the other day and somebody asked me if I was frustrated

with them and I was like, frustrated.

I'm excited about what we're talking about Uhhuh.

And they said, oh, there might be a little aggression in what I'm hearing.

And I'm like, oh, no, no.

You're hearing my over caffeination.

I purposely drank another coffee right before this call just to, and they're

like, that's why you're so sweaty.

Yeah.

I've been in meetings with people who drink no caffeine.

Yes.

Like you care myself becoming more and more almost like a crazy drug.

Oh, I'm, then we're gonna do that and, and like just the speed of the speech.

You're like this.

This is, this is Aari stuff.

Really?

See, like we don't give caffeine enough credit for the amount of

damage to actually die brains.

Oh, you think so?

See, I am a, I'm a proponent, I'm like all the studies that come out that are

like, like it helps with the offset, like dementia's always like positive

industry has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, that's right.

As your heart explodes before you ever hit dementia.

Age straight on.

No, I like the short chart.

Like it's basically cocaine.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

You hear that kid.

So drink your coffee.

Welcome to this exception of Doc Walks, which is titled basically

Cocaine with Holly Harris.

Oh, actually that is a strong contender already right out of the gate.

Ollie runs a nonprofit.

She's gotta do, she's gotta put up a A reasonably public facing.

That's right, that's right.

We're not talking about hard drugs on this podcast.

That's right.

Just the legal ones.

Yeah.

It's a early cheers.

A little early for cocaine.

So we normally we do an intro that feels like that was an intro.

Was that an intro, Ben?

I feel like that was good banter.

Yeah.

Ben likes to banter.

Alright, this is Ben leaves.

These guys are working hard.

We appreciate what y'all are doing and right off these pile of leaves.

Let's go to the intro music and beautiful Mueller.

Ding, ding, ding, ding.

And you left.

You're listening to Dock Walks with Ben and Keith.

We are in Mueller Lake.

I almost called it Mueller Lake State Park.

That, no, it's not that big.

Quite big.

Although it is, it's not quite, the state of the state of Texas hasn't

sought sponsorships and partnerships for all of its state parks here.

Not yet, no.

But I do think that it is important that we point out when we are walking,

which is the second day of March.

Okay.

And that is important because Holly, this is probably about your busiest

time of the entire year, I would guess.

Oh, it's right.

And this is this year in particular because for some reason in our world,

everything's happening in March.

Yep.

Just everything's happening this month.

That's how it is with our line of work.

It's like nothing happens for a long time and then everything happens all at once.

This is the month where the filmmakers of the world wanna come

to Austin and we're all about that.

Yep.

So we're a lot of, a lot of special events, a lot of guests, a lot, a

lot of big stuff happening at a FS, but our film awards are on Thursday,

and that's the gala where the Texas Coleman words, where we raise.

A lot of the money for the grants that we give away us.

Oh, and also you have a little thing like a feature documentary

premiering at South by Southwest.

Yes.

In a few weeks's.

Unusual for me that's, I I produced a doc this year or over the past three years.

It was actually three years ago at the start, actually, right this

time of year, three years ago.

It was during South by that this project officially started.

How did it start and tell us the name of it?

Well get into how it started.

Let's introduce our people out there to who Holly is.

Oh.

Because I think we've hinted around with some, some, some.

That's a good idea.

Some drops on like what's going on this month.

I'm just gonna take a step back.

When you said we had to point out today is is March 2nd?

March 2nd is Texas guys.

Are those blue bonnets?

Uh, ooh.

Started.

I don't think those are blue bonnets.

I. Yeah, I can't, although we do have single blue bon, we have blue

bonnets all over our yard, and we got the first little tiniest little

hint of purple that popped up.

Oh boy.

It's happening yesterday, so it's close.

I, in Texas, I, I highly recommend this springs.

Yep.

For those who have not experienced, that's what happens every year.

People come for south by, from New York where they've just been freezing

for months or from LA where they all want to get out of there and they

come here and they drink margaritas all week and the sunshine, and

they go, we need to move to Austin.

And then in August, they're back to being unhappy again.

So Holly Herrick, to my right, to Ben's left, right here down the middle is Holly.

Holly moved to Austin in 2012 from New York to become.

I, one of the artistic directors of Austin Film Society Associate artistic director.

Ah, this is some good intel.

We got.

We got a little deep dive on the, I'm gonna ask you, I'm gonna, I'm

gonna ask you how he did Yeah.

Afterwards, so you can grade his work.

So let it check, check.

Let him keep going.

And before Holly was with the Austin Film Society, who you guys have

heard us talking about to and fro on many episodes, including all four

of the Sundance sponsored episodes.

Holly was a programmer and a film writer.

I knew of you mostly from your work at Hamptons, but I know you

were down in Florida at Sarasota.

Yep.

For many years.

That's when we first met, I think the big years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

With Tom Hall.

Yep.

For years and, but really since 2012 now, which is not, not recent.

You've been here quite a while.

Yeah.

You've got a generation of experience right here moving up the ranks of Austin

Phillips Society to the point where you were the head of all television and film.

For Austin Films Society, society had of film.

Yeah.

It's on television.

Yes.

We don't do a lot of tv, but, but we do have a lot of different

types of creatives making different types of things in our programs.

So I oversee all of the programs that we run and we talk about Austin

Film Society a lot, but I know that there's a lot of people who live in

places that don't have any kind of film society, and they certainly don't

have what a FS offers to the world.

'cause a FS is more than just a society.

People get together and watch movies.

Can you give us just like a brief rundown of what a FS is for people who,

who just don't have that knowledge?

So I feel thanks for that intro.

Feel really lucky to be there because it was a very special place

and a special place that I just had the good fortune of, of being able

to accept a do there a while ago.

And I've never have always had such a rewarding experience there that

it's just been such a fulfilling, hugely fulfilling part of my life.

But a FS.

Started by Richard Linklater in 1985, mainly as a group of young

phis who wanted to watch movies.

And then it became a way for all these filmmakers in Austin to get together.

And they started a grant program out of a membership program where it was like,

let's, let's raise money to give grants to filmmakers around the state of Texas.

So it be went from only watching films to supporting filmmakers.

And in the very beginning of the new millennium, this airport over

here we're actually standing where the old airport in Austin was.

All this new development is old airport land and a bunch of the old

airport hangers here in Mueller were being decommissioned because they're

moving airport out to where it is now.

And the film community came together to ask the city if they could use

these old hangers film studios, because that was the missing piece.

This is all, all before the incentive worse.

The missing piece in Austin was meeting facilities because otherwise there

was crew and there were people who wanted to come here to make movies.

And so once those studios were open, it really gave a big boost to the

film and TV industries in Austin helps bring more production to Texas.

And from there we were able to, hello?

Hi.

Good morning.

Hi.

Good morning.

We were able to scale a bunch of programs to meet the growing film community.

I just wanna point out, you said the word scale, just because

I read the word scale scale's.

Street.

See who says coffee's bad.

Also, can I just point out that we're like speed walking?

I know, I love it.

We, this is, this is my slow, this is my slow walk, guys.

Oh good.

Oh really?

So you go faster than this?

Normally I'm really fast.

Walker.

The only person who walks faster than man is David Nugent, who is

the artistic director of the Hampton School Festival, who is lovely fella.

That guy I didn't know he was a fast walker though.

He is an extremely fast walker to the point that I have to run to keep up with.

And I consider myself.

He's a tall guy though, right?

So he's got like those long Yes.

Yeah, long strides.

So from there, and this is like where I come in is 12 years into

a studio facility being run and we're looking at a growing Austin.

How can we continue to ensure the future of Austin's film culture

and make sure that filmmakers can continue to thrive here?

And part of that was needing to have a full-time art house.

We didn't really have an art house in Austin.

We had some amazing cinemas and a really thriving Yeah.

Be going scene.

Yes.

But we didn't have a repertory art house and an art house that showed

mainly non-mainstream foreign, right.

Independent.

And nonfiction.

It's such an incredible benefit to our filmmaking community to have that.

The more I travel and go to other cities, like the more I understand

how unique it is that we have a full-time two screen rep theater

playing movies every day of the week.

It's incredible.

And the way you guys bring filmmakers in and program special events, it's like

unlike anything else that I can think of and I feel so lucky to live here.

We all feel lucky and this is a, it's also a great place for filmmakers to show

their work and also to have access to that kind of facility where it's like you

can test your DCP, you can kind of right your a work in progress of your film.

You can run it right.

There are just a myriad ways that I think the film, the if a

cinema serves the film community.

But mainly as a place for us to gather and experience the work

that's being seen elsewhere, and also contribute to that conversation

in international film culture.

And so that was a big goal.

When I came in.

They still had our screening series all over town, and we showed a lot

of movies, but having a space that was consistently by the creative

community for the creative community.

And that's, of course, it's for everybody, but I think really starting with artists

was where we were coming from when we were making it that like filmmakers in Austin

needed a place that was kind of their own.

And so much of our programming is generated by the film community coming

to us and being like, Hey, I saw this set of film festival you guys gonna program.

There's just a, there just seems to be a really great collaboration between

the film community and the film society, and not to diminish the work of our

amazing programmers who of course are, yeah, shout out all the deep guys.

Shout out to ours.

And Lars.

Yeah.

Who are just.

Some of them in, in my opinion, of course I'm very biased, but some of the

very best programmers in the country.

Absolutely.

And that, that's, uh, brings up an interesting transition to what you

and Keith have created together with a team, which is called DOC Days.

So where you tell our listeners about DOC days, if I can back up a little bit.

Yeah, of course.

Another big area of growth for us was how can we provide some deeper

experiences for local filmmakers that creates some really good relationships

and synergy within the community.

Um, in addition to our granting program, because our granting program

is incredibly expensive 'cause it's a lot of cash that's going out the door.

Thank you.

Of course.

And we want it to always be more and more and more, but it's also a big labor to

run the program and to intake up and do a really comprehensive review process.

And so we're trying always, we're trying to build a new program that

we could run with the same team.

And we have these two intensives that we do annually.

One is the artist intensive and that's for narrative features with and

filmmakers with projects and development.

And is that, is that modeled on Sundance's Intensive It It is.

Or Lab?

The sort of the kernel of the idea, but it's not actually modeled because when

we created it, and this was, it was created with a filmmaker named Brian

Poiser who used to run the program.

Yeah.

He originally wrote a grant to the academy to start this program.

And then I came into the Film Society that year.

So I was like, oh, now I gotta get, I gotta make a laugh.

Oh, awesome.

Awesome.

And Brian, it's cool.

You gotta, Holly And we sort of came up together with what could be

useful for filmmakers at that point.

Okay.

And I don't think either of us really knew very much about the labs, to be honest.

And so we've definitely benefited from the Sundance labs because we've

had mentors and filmmakers who've done the labs, who've done ours and

have been like, you should try this.

Or Here's a piece that you can incorporate.

But it's definitely its own.

Thing.

Yeah.

It's not, it's a bit more of a retreat style experience than a,

we're gonna handle cameras today or we're gonna do this piece today.

It's, it's less curriculum based.

Right.

It's a little more like Mentor me.

Free.

Free, free wheeler.

Richard Linklater is a mentor every year, and that's a big part of, of the program.

And that's cool.

Three, typically three people with scripts that are either almost ready

to go or pretty close to ready to go.

Yes.

And you're bringing in mentors.

Yes.

Richard Linklater's there.

But you're bringing in mentors also from New York and la Yes.

And trying to create that synergy between the mentors and the filmmakers.

And then after being, we've been running that program for a few

years, Keith and Megan came to us and said, we really think there could be

something more for doc filmmakers here.

And we were like, we totally agree.

What do you wanna do?

That was what my, and how can you help?

PD on how much help we are.

Huge amount of help.

A huge amount of help.

It wouldn't have happened without you.

And so that was, I was working with a colleague, Erica Debris, sugars

at the time, and we, together with you guys, we developed this concept

for a doc lab that would take place at our Austin public space.

And we, we work with different, in the beginning, worked with like

many films and now just trimmed it down to three or four projects.

But it has been just an incredibly rewarding way to bring documentary

filmmakers in our Texas community together with the rest of the documentary

industry, very similar to what we're doing with the artist intensive, creating

these moments of intersection Yeah.

For people.

But we do it at the same time as our D Days festival, which is a boutique

to eight to 10 film festival of new films that happens at the a FS cinema.

And we overlap them so that the, and I wanna clarify, I don't, I don't

have any specific role in D Days and wasn't a part of the birth of it.

You know, you're kind of part of it.

There's an overlap between the dog intensive and doc days and

they, they serve each other really beautifully, I think.

And, and certainly duck days serves the lab.

It's a twofer, right?

'cause you bring in filmmakers who have new docs to screen and then sometimes

those filmmakers are also mentors often.

Thats right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Almost every year we've been fortunate that Holly programs, great

films that Austin hasn't seen yet.

They haven't hit our community at all.

And it's often been like really established doc makers who've, who've been

out on the world stage in a lot of ways.

And so inviting them into the doc lab that Megan and I are running with the

a FS staff is like such a huge bonus.

But one of the things I love about the Dock intensive in particular is it's

a little different every year because it's like the amount of projects that

they're invited, the style and and depth of the needs of the projects.

Is different for every year.

And the group of mentors that come for doc days and other mentors that we

tap either locally or we can cajole to come down here is different every time.

And so we, in a way, we have to make it up each year, but

in a way, like we, it's true.

We learn a lot from that.

From doing that.

Yeah.

And it's, it is cool how there's a different vibe each year

based on what the projects need.

And it has, it's, it's very different from the artist intensive in that way.

The artist intensive.

Of course the vibe is different every year 'cause people create the

vibe, but it's, in terms of what we do, it's pretty much the same.

And with doc intensive, it's always, oh, what are hinting this year?

Right.

That sounds like making documentaries.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You make it up as you go along.

Exactly.

Yeah.

We turned off, I was trying to drive us towards the nature trail,

but maybe we can hit it up there.

I think it's like right over there.

Oh, let's do it.

Look, here's a, I know what you're, I know where you're trying to go and

there's an airplane flying overhead.

We had a pretty good shot of the old tower too, going up this way.

There's a lot, obviously there's so much that we need to talk about and cover.

You used the word a bunch of times in describing a FS and its

relationship to the film community.

Community has gotta be the most utilized word on doc walks in

the first almost 50 episodes now.

Like everybody talks about community.

We do because we feel like that was a big, that was a driving force behind

starting this was like wanting to this.

Yeah, but it's because we've been, we've been raised Ben and I as one

back when we were young, emerging filmmakers and now that we're grizzled

old, confused filmmakers like we've been raised by this community and

lifted up at times by the community and compared and contrasted and inspired

and community is such an important word.

Especially I imagine people listen to this podcast sitting in a place like

Ben just did an episode in Kansas City.

I don't think there's a Kansas City Film Society that's like

fostering what a FS does.

I know that there are people who are listening.

In lots and lots of like fourth and fifth place, cities and towns that

don't even know two or three other filmmakers to form a community Uhhuh.

And, and yet, when I think of where the center of our film community is, without

a doubt, it's Austin Film Society, both the cinema as a physical home.

Mm-hmm.

But even beyond that, like the idea of the film Society, which

has its tendrils in kind of like every facet of Austin filmmaking.

And it feels, we just talked to several festival programmers

when we were at Sundance.

Mm-hmm.

And, and I know that that's a hard position to be in because you're, as

much as the film festival programming is dream making, it's also dreamy, dashing.

Ah, totally.

And so, like when you, and you've got something, we're gonna get to your role

in doc days 'cause there's a little Yeah.

But doc days is different, right.

'cause it's not an open application process.

No.

And so can you talk a little bit about what it's like to be at the center of

an organization, which means so much to the community and what your role is?

For filmmakers at different levels.

Wow.

That's a big question.

Yeah.

There's so many things about what you just said that I, you just

jump down on anything I just film.

Yeah.

But somebody wants to describe a FS not as an organization,

but as an organism at the back.

At Campbell, our CEO and I have really much drawn to that

because it is, it is an organism.

It's been around for 40 plus years, and I do think we've taken

a lot of the philosophy of this is a community organization.

Of course it's an organization that we control and need to support

and make it flourish, but there's also so much of it that is like

happening outside of us, you know?

Right, right.

I think that's the thing that we talk about all the time, is we're

they're, we're creating this and, and making this organization function.

But it's not about the organization, it's about the entire film community.

Wow.

And that's the thing that we're always focused of.

Not what do we do to make the organization thrive, but what do

we do to make the culture thrive?

And that is always how we come about it.

It is pretty organic, to be honest.

It's what do, what does this community need?

What does Austin need?

What do filmmakers need?

And that has been the approach.

And of course, when you're running a nonprofit, it is irresponsible not

to take care of the organization.

You have to steward your limited resources.

And that's a big part of it is that, but we, we've invested

a lot in our operations Yeah.

In order to ensure that we have a functional, healthy organization and

so that we can say this is this, but really is something that the whole

community needs to deal with it.

Yeah.

Take care of.

And so how can we continue to enroll people with, continue

to have the community own it.

And one great way that you guys did that, which is in a, in a way, maybe

like counterintuitive if you were just thinking about the organization, right?

Is that you guys took over Austin Public.

Yeah.

Which was the public access station and all three public

access channels that are on 24 7.

Amazing.

And you so correct this story when I get it wrong, please.

But from what I understand, you guys learned that the station was

either struggling or looking for new ownership and you offered to take

it over and to help basically keep it running so the community could

have that as an outlet and also.

You guys now offer classes where you can learn how to edit, you can learn

how to make a podcast, you can learn.

So it's, it's a guest all different areas of filmmaking.

Yeah.

Which is e exactly.

Supports what you just said, which is supporting the community and the

growth of creating other filmmakers and not growing the film society

necessarily as the main goal.

So it is the city's property.

Okay.

And so what we did was we applied for a contract with his city that

anybody could apply for, any nonprofit could apply for this contract.

And we applied for it for, because we felt that if we were gonna, it

was, it was our strategic plan.

We be like, we exist to provide the tools of filmmaking to anybody in the community.

Yeah.

How are we gonna do that?

Is Austin public was the the way to do it?

Yeah.

Is to partner with the city to ensure that anybody who wanted to get their hands

on the tools, that filmmaking and distri distribution in our area could do that.

And what was really like the vision for it?

Was that filmmakers and the creative community would figure out a way to use

this space and the resource to flourish and to make the creative community grow.

And in the beginning there were, it was there.

Some people thought, well, this is public access.

It's not the scene.

Mm-hmm.

Filmmakers aren't gonna book public access.

And it really has, that vision really has happened.

Yeah.

You'll go in there and you'll see filmmakers taking

gear out to go on a shoot.

You'll see like young creatives being like, what is this space?

And then seeing that there are these really cool filmmakers who've learned

how to use the resources there.

Yeah.

And then learning from them.

And so that idea of giving something to people so everybody can see what's

directly ahead of them, and then help the people who are just coming up.

It's happening to us in Public Man and we're so proud of

what we've been able to do.

And that's of course you could not do without the city of Austin who

continues to invest in this resource.

Yep.

It is, like you said, it's bigger than us.

It's about everybody in this city having that access.

And as we know, we're in a really funky time in our economy and our culture.

Mm-hmm.

Yet media, as much as it's encoding, like our industry as we know it is

not the same, but there are is still.

Tons of opportunity.

Yeah.

And creative media.

Yes.

And it's also dominating how we think about the world.

Absolutely.

So we need to make sure that people in the community can tell their own stories.

Yes.

And it's like frankly, really important that people can do that.

And a hundred percent, well, the need storytelling, the need for

story is never gonna go away.

And that's the constant, right?

Yeah.

And so like as much as you can empower people to be able to tell their own

story, the better that will always work out when offering those services.

Like just a quick anecdote on that, about a year, year and a half ago, my

wife Sarah, who is a very experienced storyteller in still photography and is

a cinematographer on most of my projects and on some other people's projects, and

is very skilled in the world of Photoshop and color grading and photo editing, but

has never really dabbled in video editing.

He turned to me one day over dinner and said, Hey, I just signed up for a class

at Austin Public to learn how to edit.

And I kinda looked at her and I was like, we have a production company.

Austin Re is one of the best editors in Texas and he's sitting 30 feet

away in that office right now.

I'm sure he'd be happy to show you.

I would be more than happy to show you.

And she's kind of looked at me and she's like, I don't want to learn from you.

I wanna learn from people whose job it is to teach people.

Yes.

Right.

And they've got a great system and it's really inexpensive and it fits

into my schedule and I'm doing, it starts on Tuesday and Awesome.

And she did it and she loved it.

It's one of those things like, it wouldn't occur to me to utilize that resource

at this stage that, that, that I'm at and that we're used to talking about.

But it is, it's open for everybody.

And, and so also public is, is a public access TV channel.

Let's go to this trail.

We call those classes, by the way, continuing education.

Yeah.

And it is.

And that happens all the time.

I love that.

It's like people who are like, oh, you know what?

I wanna understand.

Field recording because I wanna be able to talk to my sound people.

Right on set.

Right?

Sure.

So, so I'm gonna go and take a splash.

And that is a, a classic story.

And I'm, and I love hearing those stories 'cause that's the sport.

Yeah.

And no, you don't have to be professional.

You can be starting from anywhere, but there are many professionals there.

And then that builds a network.

But now the people which I, that classified to meet Sarah, they, yeah.

A little community building, all those.

And that's, you know, also that's amazing for them to meet somebody at her level.

So it's, it's, yeah.

Okay.

So as the head of film for, well hang on just a second.

Let's point out where we are here.

We're walking up on this park where there's lots of people on yoga

mats over here doing crunches.

There's this really nice native plant area.

Ooh, let's do it.

Yeah, if you walk, we got some, some cacti.

Yep.

We get a little paddle cactus.

We got these little grasses.

There's some ladies working on fitness.

And it was, it was pretty fantastic talking about the city

of Austin and them being a partner.

And then we can't see it from where we are now, but we could see the

entire skyline from back there.

Like looking out over the whole city of Austin as we were talking about them.

These purple flowers.

Yeah.

They smell like grape juice.

Are they mountain eagles?

They are Mountain Morrows.

Yeah.

Sarah.

Yeah.

Sarah always calls 'em the uh, big league chew.

Yeah, they do.

And this is where you can get all these native vegetation.

Ooh.

It definitely sprung it down for spring, but it like the freeze,

they trimmed everything down.

So y'all aren't getting new vests in this area, but we're getting all these So

good at doing native plants around here.

Yeah.

All this cool sculpture.

Look at this.

This is beautiful.

And this, here's some flowers.

Oh, do you see some?

Yep.

Little yellow flowers coming up.

Spring Will spring again.

Ooh, that's a see an alternate title right there.

Spring or Spring 1 0 2.

Spring will spring.

Again.

We have yet to talk about Move on it.

There we go.

Oh, here.

I got it.

I got it.

Ben's good.

Good eye.

Look at that.

Before we move on from a FS Doc.

Days is coming.

It's coming.

And Holly's primary job besides running all of a FS film is programming doc days.

And so you are a film nonprofit exec.

You are a programmer.

We are going to talk about your new role as a doc producer, but

let's, before we move on from a FS Doc days, is this special, unique,

privileged kind of mini fest.

That you plan and post and foist upon us and Oh God, pretty much,

pretty much you will watch this.

You have to watch, see what foist meant.

What I see, this, what to say.

I'm caffeinated and aggressive.

This is what happens.

Well, I mean, it is kind of aggressive as somebody who is 10 films and

they're, they're not overlapping.

So you have to watch all that mean That is a generous read.

It's being impressive here.

That's a generous read of the situation as somebody who has edited

almost 50 episodes of this guy talking and you do the editing too.

I'm, I'm not taking all the credit.

I do know that Keith often starts talking without knowing exactly

where he's going, and I think that might be a good indication of that.

Isn't that called an external processor?

Oh is it?

Yeah.

Oh, oh, we've named it an external processor.

I think I'm an Is that a, okay.

I was gonna say, is it a side of low IQ and then like, or, or psychosis.

Yeah, definitely psychosis.

But until you, when you said you're an external pro No, it's

a sign of Of warmth and ality.

Yeah, of high achievement for sure.

External processing with Holly and Ke.

Yes.

Sorry Ben.

That's our new podcast.

We're not gonna shoot it with video 'cause nobody's gonna watch it talk.

Talk through.

We're both have a big to one the Fast

Face Doc days.

I know it happens.

April 30th this year kicks off.

That's right.

It's really soon, Keith.

And I'm not done yet.

You're not done program yet.

No decisions to be made.

No, there's a, there's a lot of decisions to be.

I still have more movies to watch.

Let's sidebar afterwards, because we, we have seen so many great docs

this year, and I'm sure you have too.

So we have some strong recommendations.

Okay, great.

Yeah.

Here, let's go.

Recommendations.

But you started in the world of programming.

I did, and so this is, I kind of hold onto it fiercely because for a while

Lars and I did the programming together, and of course he did more than I did.

But I, I still, it was, it was, I contributed a lot more to the FS cinema

program and little by little that has gone away, which is totally fine.

We have the most amazing programming team, but I still hold onto these little

pieces of programming in doc days.

Is, is?

Yeah.

Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah.

What is your philosophy as a programmer?

What are you looking to, how are you looking to kind of sequence a festival?

Okay.

I definitely think it's an art, not a science.

And if you start to get overly scientific, the programming sucks.

So it's more like, and especially for something like Doc days where you only

have eight, 10 slots, it's more, this is like, sounds really lame, but it's

like more you're like mixed CD or, yes.

Well, something like that where, well, I wondered if it was like that.

Yeah.

Like creating a mixed tape or you're going for a vibe or a mood.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's not, and it's definitely not, I wouldn't say a vibe like it

is more that you're, you're wanting to, you're wanting like different

feelings and different genres and different ideas to be represented.

Right?

So it's more like you're looking for extreme diversity in what's out there.

You can represent that in the program, but also for movies that

you think are so successful at accomplishing what they were going for.

Right.

And so ultimately.

It's totally about the films, but then in terms of the program, you

are gonna make some tough decisions about what fits and what doesn't fit

right, or what fit bit differently.

And that has to do with the audience.

And because we, we have the benefit of knowing our audience really well

because we are a full-time cinema.

Mm-hmm.

We sort of know, okay, we don't need to play this in doc days.

It will totally have an audience at another time.

This fits best interesting in doc days because we need to

tell people how special it is.

Mm-hmm.

And doc days is a way of highlighting that this is like a really unique

special film that you should see.

Right.

That might be, it might have a harder time riding on, and this is in every film

in doc days, but some films are in that category, but you really are trying to.

Pull from the currents of what's going on around you and make something that

is legible to an audience from a way to approach the world in this moment.

That's when you're programming at festival.

That's how some of the things I'm thinking about, like, we're always

trying to make sense of reality.

What's the conversation?

Yeah, exactly.

That needs to happen or how are people contextualizing it is happening

in a way we can form thoughts.

How are we making meaning out of what's happening in the world at this moment?

I, I'm so glad you bring that up.

'cause I'm curious, knowing that you started as a programmer and

now you run a film society and now you have just produced a feature

doc and in addition to Mike, your husband's, couple of his narratives.

Yeah.

What was it about programming that drew you early on?

Like, why not be a producer to start?

What drew me in and then the reality of where I was, and I think it's those

things combined, like stock, but when I, I went to a college called New

College of Florida where everybody.

Basically it's a theory of academics that you let the student drive the program.

Mm-hmm.

So kind of like you work professors kinda like Montessori or something?

Sort of, yeah.

But for college students it's really full of people who

didn't take a traditional path.

Okay.

And that's what you see in the alumni as well.

But people who didn't, there are no grades.

So you make it bon choc to what you're gonna do and then, yeah.

So you're, it's real.

People who are drawn to it are just like driven by what they're interested in.

Yeah.

And I got into film when I was there.

Oh.

And, and there wasn't a film program, but it was like what I

was, I was a literature student and then I was like, oh, let me see.

Like I had to watch films for an art history class and then I was

like, oh, I think I'm into films.

Perfect.

And that was where it all started for me.

And then it was like, nobody gets to see these movies.

How do you get to see these movies?

And then there was a film festival in this town where I went to Howard

in Sarasota Warn New Colleges.

Right.

And I. Started interning there when I was a student.

And then when I graduated I got a job there.

I was like, okay, this is how people get to see movies they

wouldn't get to see otherwise.

Right.

And these movies are so special.

I want everybody to see that.

Yeah.

And that, so I really didn't imagine myself being a filmmaker.

I, I, I didn't know what a programmer was.

Right.

But that's where I came in.

I love that because it's, it is essentially the same, what am I trying?

Passion that's driving you.

Right.

Because like when we talked to Matt Wolf for example, he talked about,

he didn't really understand, he was making a documentary for a long time.

He was just a huge fan of Arthur Russell.

Yes.

And he was filming a lot and thought it would be like a installation

or maybe it'd be just some kind of like strange archival record.

And his friends were like.

Who were making the film with him, were like, you're making a documentary.

That's what it's, this is called That's amazing.

Yeah.

Is a North American premier of that at Sarasota.

Really?

Yep.

Oh, amazing.

No one's working there, but some like there are these little things

that I'm like, I will brag about.

Yeah, I know.

I know.

That's such a wild combination is such a great movie.

It is an incredible movie.

But my point is though, that you were basically, you had the

same artistic motivation, right?

You were like, I love movies.

Yeah.

I want to just go hard at that.

Yeah.

And then that manifested in this way that you probably didn't necessarily

predict, like years later you would be running a film society, for example.

And I do think that there was a little there that was intentional along the way.

I remember having these like moments of revelation of what are ways that you

could create a community of film people?

Mm-hmm.

Uhhuh and I went, these were things that I would like.

When I was in my twenties, I would like think about and obsess about.

It's so, it's not an accident.

So you thought that you could work for or create a film society back then?

Well, I didn't know how the words for it or the conception of what it would be.

Right.

And it wasn't until a FS happened that I was like, oh, I think this is

that thing that I could've express.

Right, right.

I think that's so interesting.

Interesting.

I remember being in my twenties and wanting community, but

not knowing how to create it.

And I was in New York and in my twenties and there was this

organization there called Gen Art.

Yeah.

And I never even know what it was, but I kept hearing people talk

about it and I constantly told people, you should join Gen A.

You should join Gen A. I never once went to a Gen A event.

I didn't, I, joy, I didn't really understand, but I, it's like you want

there to be a thing for me anyway.

I want there to be a thing, but I don't want.

I wanna be dragged into the thing.

Yeah.

Or not at all.

That's the thing.

It has to be organic.

Has to be organic.

It has to be like, you have to like, and this was the thing and you like, I didn't

really belong to anything in New York.

I only went to things that were really interesting to me.

And that's where you met the people.

Right?

If you went to that, like when Vans repertory program, when day gorillas

programming, I'll be like, oh yeah, I'm gonna be there on Friday night.

And then there's a bunch of people in the film community there

who also find that interesting.

And men are building community organically and finding out

what everybody's working on.

And that's how it happens, right?

So I think that's where the art house keys of a FS comes in.

It's like, you can't just be like, we're, we're having a party and

all the cool people should show up.

No.

Like everyone's busy.

When you're really trying to create artistic comedian, and this kind of

goes back to, you know, air guitar and the, and that thing through the Bible

of what our real artistic culture is.

But you have to have people who are making work that you find so extraordinary.

That you can then be like, okay, I'm not gonna be satisfied in my own

work until, oh, this is those Mexican cherry trees, Mexican corn trees.

They're on that list of, of stuff I was reading before.

They, okay guys, I'm gonna get this wrong.

Are they cherry blossoms?

Okay.

They look that way.

You're not a part, you don't, not the head of the Austin Flower Society.

So you can get away with maybe something there.

Aw, it's a natural.

I need you to, I need you to rewind.

I need a little more explication, a hickey and air guitar.

Those are words that I know.

I've heard you say them, but I'm not sure what you meant, but

probably you dropped it in there.

So Patrick.

Okay, so just, there's an essay in Dave Hickey's book, air Guitar about creative

community lab, artistic community.

And it probably, and okay, it's been a few years since I've read this essay, but

essentially the idea is you need to have, like, you can't be an artist on an island,

governments, oh, we have this great.

Artists.

We have this great filmmaker in our town and that filmmaker

is awesome and everyone's just worshiping and loving a filmmaker.

It's, that does not do anything for anyone, especially

young artists coming up.

And it just is as rusty for that person becoming sail and mediocre

and nobody else having opportunities.

So you need people at all levels.

You need people who are like at the top of their game and who are

always pushing themselves forward.

And then everybody else needs to be pushing themselves forward too.

It's like art can never be satisfied, right?

Like the idea of us, we're peeling back the layers of culture, we're finding

different ways to tell the truth.

And so you can't just, there is no laziness and art together, you know?

And that's not a nice word or not a good word, but like how do you

continue to have that level of drive and ambition behind the ideas?

And it's in being in community with people who are gonna be a little restless.

Oh, I love that so much.

I It shouldn't have bounce.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I just went to Lawrence, Kansas to be part of my alma mater's professional

advisory board for the film school.

Like literally I was there yesterday and the first night I was there,

one of the professors drug me like, literally was like, thank you.

Oh, drug me.

Along to a screening, I heard drug to a screening at the local high school

of a documentary called Join or Die.

Do you guys know this?

Yes.

Have you heard?

I heard about this.

Yes.

You have gotta see this movie.

I didn't know this film, the class.

So Robert Putnam wrote a very famous book called Bowling Alone.

Yep.

And the, the thesis of that book is basically like the declining

membership in social clubs.

Okay.

Is leading to the decline of our democracy.

Yes.

And at this screening in Lawrence, Kansas, in a high school gymnasium where 40

social groups, everything from like Civil War Reenactor to like gardening clubs.

Mm-hmm.

And they were all there in support of this movie.

And the city had basically financed and created this screening opportunity

and the woman from the city came out and she was like, I understand

we're in a time of division.

It's perfectly okay for you to not like your city government.

If you don't think you like what we're doing.

You are the city.

If you don't like it, change it.

There's 40 clubs right here ready to go.

And I was so moved.

I'm so inspired.

It was so cool.

And it was what you were talking about where it's like, yeah, you can't have

things that just work at the top level.

Like you have to have groups practicing democracy underneath the main Yes.

Democracy, right?

Yes, yes.

Yeah.

Participation and, and drive and representation like of

different parts of the community.

And I think also if the film community only exists in one particular section

of the community, it's not really real.

And I think that's what we're getting in Austin is more participation from

people who weren't interested in film before who are now getting so there.

I feel like that true.

I don't know.

It's, it's, it's an interesting time.

It's a, yeah.

You said Art cannot be satisfied.

And to me that's gotta be a front runner for the title.

Title.

Yeah.

That's pretty great.

And it's 'cause I wanna wear a t-shirt and put a little post-it, note it at

the minimum next to my computer there.

Reminds me of that.

When you say you can't be lazy, you're absolutely right.

Like it's a, it's a, it's somewhere I fall, it's a trap I fall into trying

to be a professional filmmaker is you come up with all these ideas to get

people to pay you to turn it into a job.

And that's what you have to do if you've taken the path I've taken.

Right.

But at the same time, when people don't want to pay you and turn it into a job,

sometimes really good ideas get dropped.

Yeah.

In, in favor of just like paying your mortgage.

Oh yeah.

I mean it's a catch 22 and it's a setup.

It is.

And and it's like a reminder I need sometimes that I need to always have

at least one or two going that it doesn't matter what anybody else says.

Like I've gotta either fund myself or figure out a way to do it where they

doesn't need that kind of funding.

And so I just appreciate you pointing that out.

You know, it's so easier said than done though.

And this is, this is the thing, like it's really uncomfortable when we start talking

about the reality of what this requires.

Right.

Because it, there is, and I feel like the movement to like pay equity and

let's get everybody up to pay and it's like all of that, I totally believe

a hundred percent and behind, yes.

Completely support.

And the reality of the moment is that it is a, there is no support.

So it's, you really have to hold both of those truths all the time

and even hold them like in situations I've been in now as a producer, which

I wasn't for and so healthy to be in, where it's just, oh yeah, I got

an entire crew of people deferred.

Right.

And it's, that feels so bad.

Does it?

You?

I mean that's, that's it feels terrible.

Yeah.

And it's like, what are you gonna do?

Yeah.

Right.

You've knocked on all the doors, right?

You've asked for all the fun.

Yeah, that's right.

And the reality is that like.

The days when you used to be able to make something on spec, take it to

Sundance and sell it for 10 times, the investment don't really exist anymore.

No, no, no.

And and I, and I think we are never gonna stop having artists in society.

And that's simply the art, being uncomfortable and pushing

the conversation forward.

Ending the thing we don't necessarily wanna look at is also true and is

gonna, and let's hope that that continues because that's the only way

our democracy is gonna be healthy.

Right.

Which.

Well, it's a different ation, but, but I think But it's all related, right?

Like they're all connected.

What we value and what we fund has says everything about who we are.

What I value is sometimes grabbing the, the, the path off the highway.

Okay.

We are, we're taking the path.

There's also like 3D printed houses.

I know, I think they are, are printed houses.

We live right by icon that does all the 3D printing.

It's so cool.

900 of those in Marfa.

Yeah.

Wait, where's the water gonna come from?

Good.

Where?

Fine.

A word to those.

Buying 3D printed houses in Marfa.

I question where your water is Horing.

That's too long for a title.

Oh, but Holly just handed us the perfect little segue that we have fumbled.

Deeply, but I'm gonna bring us back to, which is you have a crew working

on deferral because you have a story that needs to be told and you've tried

to get other people to pay for it.

They haven't shown up.

And the part of the reason they haven't shown up is because your story that

needs to be told is a political story.

It is unflinching, it is a microcosm of a much bigger society

issue that is happening all over the place and people are scared.

And, and that is a recipe maybe to lose a lot of money, but a

recipe to be a great producer.

And so that is the role that you've stepped into these last three years.

Yeah.

And I will say we have gotten some great support.

So there are people who have stepped up and we, this would not have existed.

Yeah.

Oh, it's like three years in the making.

You can all, you can't have, you can't have a director working.

For free for three years.

So just it, it can't happen.

I would imagine not because I know a little bit about the story.

You need your crew available and to embed for long periods of time.

That's right.

So that's, that's very expensive.

No.

Yes.

Let's take a step back and let's talk about what it, this was random

thing that we've danced around but haven't introduced is first.

I don't want part the title first.

Okay.

Remember what's called first.

They came from my college and I, I, whether or not this got cut, I went

to a school in Florida called New College of Florida, which is a very

unique school that has no grades.

It's a public liberal arts college.

It's called the Honors Scholars of the Stakes work.

First, they came from, my college is about the first college to have

a political takeover of the school.

We are now seeing this everywhere because it's 2026 and it's Harvard and t, but

it's started at New College of Florida in 2023, and it was when Rhon DeSantis.

The governor of Florida announced a takeover of New College of Florida, and

Chris Ruffo was elected to the board.

Chris Ruffo, of course, is the n notorious crusader against DEIB in all of its worms.

He got the president cover fire, but Chris Ruffo, uh, also announced this as a

hostile takeover you Callers of Florida.

Oh, wow.

Um, so he used that phrase, he used that phrase Yes.

And they, and was not corrected.

That's aggressive by the administration.

So they called it a hostile takeover that's aggressive and caffeinated.

Both.

Yes'.

Be a little cocaine.

So it was intended as a, I mean, it appeared to be, appeared to be a

political move by DeSantis who was then announcing a run, um, for president.

And it looked like he was trying to get.

Some headlines mm-hmm.

By going, by being a crusader around education against diversity, equity,

inclusive inclusion initiatives.

But really what we discovered was that DEIB was almost used like a Trojan

course to get through the doors.

Mm. And dismantled the academic program in the culture.

And that is something that now we've seen happen at every other

school that is experiencing this.

And so the documentary was not intended, it was as a, like, really we approached

it as we're trying to make art and meaning out of what's happening here.

So it's not an advocacy doc.

Um, it doesn't cover the play by play of everything that happened.

And we call it from 2023 to 2025, which is the theory of correction.

But what it does do is.

Observe from inside what the culture of the school looked like as the

students and faculty experienced this huge, basically, not just change, but

really a hostile right of what they call the hostile takeover of the campus

and what, how that brought culture wars to campus and really what that

meant for students and professors on a Kenny goodie Robin as an alum of that

school, can you remember the moment you first realized this was happening,

how you heard it, and the moment of decision to do something about it?

It was on Facebook and on WhatsApp that keeps started talking about it

and it was shocking and amidst like all the other really ugly things

that have happened from the far right wing at that moment and since.

It felt like just another way of trying to dismantle these, not just institutions,

but very special parts of our country.

Yeah.

Like that.

And it felt enormously depressing, upsetting, like to have

something that was so special.

And the thing about New College is that it's affordable.

So Florida famously is a very affordable place to go to college

in state and out of state.

And the reason a lot of people take New College is they are kids who like

wanna go to Yale or Swarthmore or these expense cities, coast schools,

and their families can't afford it.

And they know it's just completely out of reach.

And so they go to New College and they get the same kind of academic experience.

And I would say the same quality of education.

And that bears out because New College has the highest per capita, PhDs.

Of any public college in the country.

Is that right?

Wow.

So yes, there's this huge, huge record of academic achievement among

the students that have gone there.

Yeah.

It's because you're basically doing graduate level work.

Every student does a thesis.

Okay.

And so when they go on to graduate school, they're tend to be very successful.

And so when you read about this on Facebook and on WhatsApp is

your first instinct like to make a political statement back, like,

we gotta hit back against it.

I was like, what's happening?

And there was a Slack group that started among the alumni.

I mean, it's just devastating because people, for many or

college was the only choice.

It is a place, I don't know.

There's a very famous story by, um, a woman who went to New college,

um, who was a child of the KKK.

Oh geez.

Um, and she went to New college.

She was previously, she she has transitioned.

So Uhhuh, was this like David Duke's daughter or something?

Yes.

Uh, David Duke.

Not nice.

She went to New College and was transformed by the experience.

Wow.

And, um, basically spoke out against her upbringing.

She was sort of positioned to take over the kkk.

Wow.

And she attended New College because of the medieval studies program, which can

always very valued on Yeah, for sure.

Ultra, um, write me idea ideologues and was basically trans, it was

deprogrammed essentially at New College.

Mm-hmm.

And so it, new College has this amazing history, rich history among

the few people who had gone there.

So I think what, what, when I saw this happening and then we saw news

stories from the New York Times, from the New Yorker, from the Atlantic.

Pretty much every major news outlet started to cover the story.

And then I started to get really concerned because I was like, the

things that would people would say about New College, it was like.

Struggling school.

And I'm like, are you taking that from DeSantis report?

Because they were calling it struggling.

The reason it was struggling is because the Republicans weren't funding it.

Uh, so they were denying new college of funding that it needed to be successful.

And then they swooped in and gave the college much money right to to change.

They're kicking in the knee and then saying, look, it's limping, but the press

were accepting these headlines, right?

Like struggling with enrollment.

These things were sort of like half truths that weren't fully explored.

And there's some really notorious articles now among the community

that don't tell the full picture.

And alumni have been the ones to come out and say, this is not the story, right?

And y'all are missing the story.

And so I felt like there was gonna be a film.

I'm gonna hate it and I'm gonna be really mad that it'd do something.

Mm. And that was basically the motivation, which is like, you

know, kind of cynical, but like.

That is filmmaking.

That's there's gotta be a film and I'm gonna hate it.

Yeah, exactly.

So I'm gonna go make it.

I better get there first.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's funny you say that.

'cause I, as I mentioned, was just in Kansas City walking with

Sharon Lee who made SEAS and she's a Kansas based filmmaker.

Right.

And this story that Seas is based on is, was a national story, but based in Kansas.

And she had the exact same response Totally.

Where she was like, somebody else is gonna do it, they're gonna beat me to it.

Yeah.

I don't know if this is for me.

And then the more she started, she just basically couldn't shake it.

Yeah.

Kind of like what you're describing.

And then she was like, no, I gotta be the one to do it.

And because she drove there, the old school editor was

like, you got the scoop first.

You put boots on the ground.

I'm going with you.

That's amazing.

Is that Bas, was that a similar experience for you?

I mean, it's basically like there were so many camera crews.

It was like they, they couldn't, the poor, like the community was under

surveillance almost at this time from both the new administration and the.

That there was no trust, like the students were a mess.

The professors, everybody was a wreck.

And it felt, and so when we started going down there, it was, it was

really tough to even, and, and it was because of, we were alumni that we

had, we were granted different access.

And that was our, and our team consisted of people who were helping

out with these efforts to make sure really bad things didn't happen.

And that, I'll call out Darren Po, who was our co-producer.

He is an alum.

We were at New College at the same time.

He was a, you were friends.

He's a old dear friend.

And he went on campus as soon as this started happening and started

helping the librarians to preserve the archive, the digital archive.

Oh wow.

And then he was also filming what was going down.

And so he had, um, he was basically at every major event with his camera.

And so when I, the, one of the first people I talked to was Dan.

I was like, tell me what you're doing.

Let's see.

Let's try and get a movie together.

And did he live there?

He lives in Sarasota.

Nice.

So Dan was boots on the ground, like in the very beginning.

And, and so you from Austin reach out to Dan, so you effectively

put the movie together, right.

So then you approached Patrick.

Yes.

And then I approached, so Margaret, actually Margaret Brown, who's an

ep, I approached her first and she was like, I'm making yogurt chop.

And I am, and this is like in the thick of yogurt chop.

Yeah.

And she's like, come on Holly, you can produce this with your eyes closed.

She said that, Margaret, you said that.

And that is not true, but it's a good thing she said it.

Because I probably wouldn't have done it.

Mm. Because she just was like, you got this.

She could, yeah.

She kind of took the fear.

She was like, don't be afraid.

You know, like, I think I would've been too scared if she

hadn't said that for the record.

I completely agree with Margaret Brown.

And I'm sure you crushed it.

I mean, as in No, no, I did not.

I was a very mediocre producer, which anyone can attest to because

I have a full-time job at She gets, but we just stuck with it.

It's like that was what needed to happen.

Well, that is what filmmaking is.

That's, that's number one.

Yeah.

But your humility is refreshing.

Uh, and we all know.

No, just stop on it.

It's impossible.

No, no, no, no, no.

It's real.

It's real.

It's like there's only so much you can do when you have this,

when you're spread this thin.

And so, and you're not physically there.

I I'm not physically there, so I assume that was probably really difficult.

No, it, it was, but this is why Patrick was so essential.

So, so Margaret and I talked about who would be great for

this project, and I was, I, my feeling always was it has to have.

The spirit of the school, which is very unique.

This is not an East coast right.

Liberal arts college.

It's a place in Florida that nobody's ever heard of.

Mm-hmm.

And so who goes there?

It's students who really, that is the choice for them, right.

To go to this school.

And so having that character and not trying and painting the picture of the

school, you know, it's like the same thing of people who make movies Nelson.

And they're like, keep Austin weird.

Let's make it weird 'cause it's Austin.

It's like there would've been that desire instead of just diving in

and observing what was really there.

Yeah.

Going in without acting like he knew the full story.

And so Patrick really was the person to do that.

And his persistence, his dedication, him going down there frequently without,

with no producers is by himself.

Is what made the movie director Patrick Bresnan.

Yes.

Who, and previous to this, Patrick has made several films in Florida.

In Florida, which is another huge benefit.

Like it was like.

Has maybe was in Florida, knows how to work with the community, is one of

the best verite filmmakers there is.

Right.

And so is an offbeat character himself is would understand new college.

Yeah.

Feels like he's of that world.

When he went on campus, he was like, he, he, so we, he went down on a shoot

to heal it out and he was like, I wish I would've gone to this school.

You know, it was like he immediately understood it and it really

appealed to him and as a place.

And then he was really wrapped up in what was happening to these

students and professors, which he found really distressing.

Like what he saw there.

He was very disturbed by that students, especially queer

students, were being targeted.

The disciplinary action that people were scared.

There was a, they were tampering down on free speech on campus like it used to be.

Students were not allowed to chalk.

You use chalk on services.

They started saying, we're gonna write and walk with disciplinary.

Like if you use chalk, if you write something on the sidewalk, pioneer

ways that students communicate with each other around events.

Like, because it's a no, it's a non-traditional place.

People are not online all the time.

So they, they chalk like there's a party or there's an event or come

out to this and they started saying the strings, you could do that.

So he was very wrapped up in the turmoil and just had a huge amount of

concern for what was happening there.

And that also really drove him towards wanting to tell the string story.

Hmm.

So I've been fortunate to see a rough cut of film.

I haven't seen the final cut.

Oh, it's so different.

I'm sure.

I'm sure that's the process, right?

Like that's the goal of, of rough cut is to Yes.

But for people out there who are, you know, this is a, this is a story.

I said it before in the, in the introduction.

This is a microcosm of what's happening in the world around us and.

This hostile takeover takes the form of, of seeding the board of this school

with people that have no connection to the history and culture of the place.

Don't speak the language basically, and immediately come in and start

rearranging all the departments rearranging the priorities of the school.

One of the most, I mean, it sounds almost like, like an, I mean, it is,

it's like a bad eighties movie villain kind of idea, but they take this like

offbeat, quirky kind of student run arts culture and immediately come in

and say after how old is the school?

Oh, it's from, in 1960.

Okay.

So it's not that that old, but so, but after decades of the school ruin the way

they say, hello, we need a sports program.

Oh yeah.

We, the school, not surprising that they don't have, you know, a baseball

team or a football team, but that there is no sports program outside of.

Whenever the, it's all student driven, so there's a sailing club, but

that's because the students run it.

There's a gardening club because the students run it.

So there's there if it's kids, if the students wanna start a sport,

they could do it, but it's not, the whole idea is like there's not a

program here of sports that the is where all the money is being found.

All the money was spent on in the academics, all of it.

And the gardening club is one of the most riveting aspects of the documentary.

And I wanna, I'm gonna repeat that.

That's a pull quote that you can put on the DVD box.

The gardening club is one of the most riveting aspects of the documentary.

And look who else would've done that except for Patrick.

Right?

And it's like you have this revelation and like Patrick's

dad, I'm gonna film the student.

It's called the food Forest.

It's where the students grow edible foods in this beautiful,

in my garden space on the campus.

So first they came from, my college started three year, it was

a three year process to make it.

Uh, you have Patrick directed it.

I know it was directed, edited by Liam Marino, and then Yvette also came in.

Yes, yes.

So we had two amazing editors.

The other lead producer is Harry Hanberry, and it was like, would not

have happened without this for like ha Like I, Harry Hanberry and John Potts.

Haste?

No.

Dan Pothas.

Dan Pothas, yes.

And Harry Hanberry.

Yes.

Yes.

These are made up people.

He, yeah.

That Harry Hanberry in particular is a great name I'm gonna use with my kids.

Okay.

He is, he's, and he's a great person and is responsible for so much of his movie.

Cool.

Okay, so the film is premiering having its world premiere at itself by Southwest.

What is your hope for it?

I mean, you've, you've, she, you've programmed films for, for

a couple decades now, and you shepherded people's film careers.

You have unique, we even get into this, you have unique access to Richard

Linklater and his career through his role.

At the top of the Austin Flip Society and, and a long

friendship and relationship there.

But you also are helping the most baby emerging film

Lakers take their first steps.

And now here you are putting this film out on the stage.

It's a difficult time Oh.

For any kind of film.

And this is as political as it gets.

I mean, you're just taking it right to the center of the fight.

It is.

And, and I, and what I hope is that people, I don't know, it's, it's, I

keep talking about it in this political way, I think, and it's, it's kind of

bigger than that, I think, and that is my hope for the movie, is that people

understand this as a microcosm of what happens in a society that starts to

devalue the actual real diversity.

That is like the diversity of nature.

Like this is when, when people bring their full selves and

their full ideas to the world.

Amazing things flourish.

And when we have regimes that tamp down on what our organic

culture can be, it's a really scary thing for our society as a whole.

And I think we, when we were making this movie, we were hearing a lot

about terms that the Nazis use and one of the really common terms, which

I can't remember the German word for, but it means to make everything

the same, to make everything safe.

Same.

The same, the same.

Like, we're just trying to get, we're just trying to make sure everything's the same.

And this is what we saw, the visual representation of this

happening at New College.

Like, we're just gonna, we're gonna take, we're gonna cut down trees,

we're gonna lay down AstroTurf.

We're gonna cover up everything that was unique and different

about the campus and make it look like a corporate Silicon Valley.

Mm-hmm.

Like tech campus.

Wow.

And that we don't always call out those things as what they are.

And what we see, we see this a lot from the far right.

Like doing, making a unique, interesting institution.

No, we want it to be the same.

We want, we want things to adhere to a frankly Christian fascist

version of the world movement.

Everyone be white or act like they're white.

It's diversity as a threat to power.

Right.

And so it's bigger to me than the political fight over academia.

And so what I hope the movie does is, I mean, I, I hope that

the filmmakers are celebrated for their amazing creative work.

I hope that the students and the professors that we filmed with.

I have a feeling of being able to express themselves and what they experienced

because the movie is out there and they are traveling around with it.

And, and then I hope that other places that are experiencing the same type of

oppression can find a way out and through.

Yeah.

Well said.

That's, those are wonderful hopes.

Yeah.

Uh, where will the film find itself after South By Southwest?

Can you announce any more?

Yeah, so we have True Falls and South by Southwest.

Cool.

And we have, there's a few others that hadn't been announced yet, so I don't

know if I can say, but there's, it's, we have a festival in Florida that

we're playing the room excited about.

Cool.

We're gonna be on the West Coast pretty soon here, and then some other East

Coast screens in the early summer.

So you're premiering at True Falls.

Yes.

And your hope as producer is, of course, you want as many people to see it and for

the movie to affect change and all the beautiful things that you just mentioned.

And you are hoping that it gets distribution.

What's distribution like?

We're gonna distribute it, but if nobody picks up, I mean,

that's always been a plan.

Like when you make a movie that is on this topic, it's like academia

and politics and the culture war.

I do think we've had an incredible response in terms

of people wanting to see it.

We have, we've already done a good amount of organizing like the A A

UP our, it's fully on their radar.

That's the American Association University professors.

There's a, there are a bunch of different grid that are organizing

around these issues that want all of their membership to see it.

And that's a pretty large extensive audience.

Yeah.

Great.

On campuses around the country.

So if it was me and I was a distributor, I would consider

picking up our movies, so, right.

I know that's not the world that we live in and it takes legwork to

get it out there to these people.

And so the, the whole idea is that, we'll, you know, we'll put it

together if there isn't the right.

Yeah, that's right.

Like, you know, all rights partner.

So I just smoked before.

It's not more the South PI's, nothing more there.

True false York career.

Yeah.

It feels almost, yes, that's correct.

Yes.

Okay.

Just, but they are a week of art, so it feels kind of like,

yeah, the same like wine Jing.

It's like it's, yeah.

And what about Sarasota?

Is there a festival there still?

There is still a festival in Sarasota.

Yeah.

We, we will see.

You will see, see, we'll see.

Fingers Crunch.

Yeah.

Soda.

The, I will say the festival.

It is now IBI taking place on the new college campus.

Wow.

No way is it really heard.

Oh, it's gotta play there.

That that would be the best outcome.

That'd be amazing.

Oh, okay.

We are coming up on the end of our walk.

We always do a thing at the end.

Whoa.

Call the lightning round.

Which admittedly we are not very fast at doing.

No, it's, it's very, it's a rough thunderous rumble of thunder.

We should just, at this point, we should just call it a round, I guess.

I don't know.

Yeah, it's a triangle really.

Question.

Okay.

So first question is, what was the gateway drug film for you that turned you on that

was like, I want to do that for a living.

Mine is so lame.

I mean, it's, no, it's awesome.

It's awesome.

It's awesome.

It's awesome.

But it's just So like college, A woman is a woman, but art.

Wow.

That is not so.

Oh, so we've heard that a million times.

We've never heard that before.

That's a woman.

Is a woman by Godad art.

Uh, and you saw that in a, like a gender study class or a film studies class?

No, I was like, I had seen what, gosh, what do we watch in class?

We must have watched Breathless for class.

Sure.

And then I wouldn't video store.

Okay.

But wait, what makes you say that's lame?

That seems like a pretty cool choice to me.

You know what actually did?

I was like, breathless pushed you to chick that, but yes.

Yeah, but that was like.

I think what I loved about it was it was like, it's like a celebration of

his love of the golden era of H Musical.

And I loved that era.

Like when I was growing up, that's all I watched was like

all of those fa Oh, all of that.

Every, yes, the especially even ality, like all of those amazing with Dei

Garland was like Edma star awesome.

And, but I was really turned away by Hollywood and the naive.

Mm-hmm.

Oh for sure.

The gender stuff.

And then I felt like, well it was happening with Godar

and women was also interest.

It was, it was more interesting.

It was happening like with Tarantino and Yes.

Which also, I didn't understand the history of that neither at the

time, but like it was really hard to be a, you know, 17-year-old

when all changes were hunting out.

Sure.

Probably.

Yeah.

It's what I dropped film because of pulp fiction.

Yeah, totally.

Because nobody would shut up about it.

Yeah.

Freshman year of college.

Okay, so that's your gateway drug.

Go see.

Goodar.

What's the other question, Ben?

I always forget the, the second one is that we hope that this

is for aspiring filmmakers.

Okay.

And so what would your advice be to somebody who is just

starting out in our industry?

It's a particularly tough time to answer that question.

No, I think it is really know your why.

Mm-hmm.

What, what's, what is the thing?

Like if, if you're gonna say, why am I here?

Really know your why and try and build your career around that, rather

than like some outside idea of what somebody's telling you it should be.

Because then you'll find your way to like your passion and what you're here for.

And like your calling.

Yeah.

If you know why.

You're in it.

And if it's fame and fortune, there are, this is no longer the place my go.

That part.

Yep.

That is great advice.

I just have to compliment you on that.

'cause we have not heard that before and I love that it's know yourself

and know what you want to accomplish before you go out to then achieve it.

That's really good advice.

I think I, I wanna second that and also just to say like, for emerging

filmmakers and I, I don't wanna speak for anyone else except myself, but when

I was getting started in my teens and twenties, I felt like I was desperate to

say something but didn't have anything to say or didn't know what to say.

Right.

Yeah.

And when I come to realize now, all these years later is

there's nothing wrong with that.

I wasn't ready, I didn't know my why yet.

And so that was the phase where I had to look.

I had to learn what mattered.

Yeah.

Right.

I had to learn what I was good at and what I wanted to get better at.

Yeah.

But I wasn't in the place to be the teller yet.

Yeah.

To learn to be the maker.

But I wasn't the the person who had the voice yet.

Yeah.

Hopefully.

And, and then, and then hopefully you know who you wanna work with

if you know why you're doing it.

And then you can try and your why kind of drives.

Yeah.

Okay.

And you're, you're still figuring out your why Keith?

Externally processing, as we've learned, as we go, I'm, I'll be, be we, we all are.

When are we gonna be, when we grow up guys,

I don't want to grow up ever.

And then the last one, uh, is what is the thing that you can't

stop thinking about right now?

And what I've learned is we need to be specific and make it non film related.

Oh, there you go.

Okay.

This is an easy one 'cause I'm reading, um, a Wendell Berry book.

Oh, nice.

And so it's definitely the, like, when I'm reading culture agriculture,

I think that's what it's called.

I don't know, I'm always, I'm like, I know.

I can't tell you the name of the book I'm reading, so I'm thinking

a lot about, like, everything is, you know, everything is connected.

Mm-hmm.

How do we ensure that we steal all the connections that are easy to ignore?

I love that.

Like, I mentioned it or it's like how I'm, I'm getting a little woo woo here please.

But like, we're everything, you know, how can we make sure that we don't stamp out.

Our own values.

And I think that's especially true for us in the film.

Like we all, like, we don't have time to be like growing our own food, you know?

Mm-hmm.

So how do we live our values and make the work, you know, as we suck

a lot of electricity from the system.

I love that.

And I, I would say that your career kind of exemplifies

thinking about that, you know?

'cause the film society is like a living, like you talked about,

it's like a living, breathing organism trying to create community.

Yeah.

And it seems like the more divided we get and the more we're all on our

phones and streamings gobbling us all up, like the more it's about figuring

out that we're connected and needing to create those alliances and groups.

That is sort of the antidote to all that stuff, you know?

Yes.

It is the antidote.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, let's avoid isolation, watch movies together.

What's the name of the book?

The Wendleberry book.

I think it's Agriculture something.

It's agriculture and something else.

Okay.

I'm gonna go back to what Holly just said is let's watch movies together.

And it is right now, south by Southwest.

This episode is coming out just as South by Southwest is about to end.

So your film has already had, its South by Southwest experience.

How was it?

It was so incredible.

Thank you.

South by so well, and it's, and finally, you have a chance to exhale

because all the work is behind you.

The Texas Film Awards, which you are running ragged at, pull off

the Austin Film Society South by Southwest Party, which will be

an entire episode of Doc Walks.

Yes.

It's so fun, uh, as come and, and your films, uh, not world premier,

but, but Hometown Premiere.

We appreciate you guys, uh, being here week to week.

We've loved doing these festival episodes.

Absolute last week.

Absolutely.

We brought you guys Claudette Godfrey.

Yep.

The festival program for all the South by Southwest this week, doc Days Creator

Festival, programer extraordinaire, and producer Holly Herrick.

And next time on Doc Walks.

On Doc Walks we have Jess hair.

From Sandbox Films.

So cool.

Yes.

Yeah, that's right.

So we've got programmers, we've got producers, we've got executives,

and we've got financiers.

This is a great time to be a Doc Walks listener, and a great

time to be a Doc Walks sponsor.

Austin Film Society has sponsored us numerous times.

That's right.

And this week, and brought to you by our friends at Rambler Sparkling Water.

Here they are supporters of most things.

Texan, almost all things Austin and good friends of ours,

ple, they're great people.

Please go Support Rambler Sparkling Water Favorite.

They are flavor is Grapefruit supporting us.

Your favorite flavors?

Grapefruit.

What's your favorite flavor, Holly?

Oh, probably lemon Lime.

Ooh.

I'm a Satsuma man.

Or wild cherry when they have it.

I do like saying Satsuma.

Satsuma.

Okay.

All right.

We did our next time, we did our Triangle of Lightning.

Holly, is there anything we didn't talk about that you wanted to talk about?

Oh God.

The Silver Book by Olivia Lang.

It's a great book to read.

Oh, oh, okay.

That's my last recommendation for everyone.

Great.

Great glove movies through that book.

It's without the making of a Pasolini movie.

Awesome.

I'm definitely going to read air guitar.

You're the second person who I respect who mentioned that and

she's like, what's wrong with me?

Have she didn't say that?

Yeah.

No, it's supposed she thought it though.

Admit it.

I am reading, I love Wendell Berry, so I'm gonna look up, I think I have that

book on my shelf, what's it called?

And, and The Silver Book by Olivia Lang.

Olivia Lang.

You say it, we gotta shoot this truck.

Woo loud.

Just the future loud trucks.

As usual, we don't know when to stop, so let's go ahead and say, let's stop.

Holly, thank you so much.

Bye guys.

This is fantastic.

Alright, bye-bye Bye.

This episode is sponsored by our good friends at Rambler Sparkling Water,

A tasty limestone mineral blend with the perfect level of tight,

crispy bubbles made in America and proudly supporting American Rivers.

Ramble on

Doc walks is.

Created, produced and edited by my friend Ben Steinhower of the Bear.

Hello, and my friend Keith Maitland of Go Valley.

Thanks for tuning in.

Follow us at Doc Walks Pod on Instagram X and YouTube.