EP031 – Opportunity Calls! w/ Patrick Heaphy

11.20.2025 - Season: 1 Episode 31

Join Ben as he walks solo with Patrick Heaphy—a New York producer/director and music doc extraordinaire. Together they saunter across South Congress, past the Continental Club to Arlyn Studios. Pat’s the filmmaker behind CHARLEY CROCKETT: $10 COWBOY documentary—now screening at Austin Film Festival—but his career path runs through a Nancy Kerrigan vampire clip (the lav accessory, of course), the 1994 Olympics, and a 9/11 doc compiled from his day-of footage. We dig into the music documentary hustle: multi-cam concert films at the Ryman, working the Springsteen archives, and why answer-the-phone opportunity beats mere aspiration. Pat breaks down his company LCM247 (figure out what it means yourself), eating ramen for 26 odd years before festival recognition, and why the AI his mom uses is top of mind. Plus: Pat spots Will Ferrell’s eyeballs and uncovers Willie’s old haunt.

Discussion Links:

WITNESS TO 9/11: IN THE SHADOWS OF GROUND ZERO (2020) | NEBRASKA CELEBRATION: WORDS AND MUSIC (2024) | CHARLEY CROCKETT: $10 COWBOY (2025)

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction and Camera Work 01:00 Patrick’s Background and Nancy Kerrigan Story 05:00 From Firefighter Family to Filmmaking 08:00 Post-Traumatic Stress Documentary 10:00 Selling Cars and Making Cable Commercials 12:00 Becoming the Music Guy 16:00 Musicians and Documentary Filmmakers 18:00 Charley Crockett’s $10 Cowboy Origin 20:00 Arlyn Studios and Willie’s Legacy 22:00 Americana Fest and Noah Kahan 24:00 Irish Connection and Multiple Hustles 26:00 9/11 Documentary 27:00 Lightning Round Begins 29:00 Charley Crockett Recording Process 33:00 Advice for Young Filmmakers 35:00 Gateway Drug Question 36:00 Dream Collaborators and AI

And what am I going for?

Am we going for a single or a double?

What do we got

here?

I you do you, what I normally do is I kind of do a raking two shot.

I'll come into a single, I'll come back this.

So really this

is your camera that I'm holding?

No, this is because I'm looking at you.

So that's my camera kind of.

You could think of it as cross coverage.

Yeah.

This is director talk right here.

I like this.

I wanna know what my day rate is though.

I didn't expect to have to do any work today.

I'm really putting you to work.

That's true.

On your left.

You are listening to Dock Walks with Ben and Keith.

So Keith couldn't be here this morning and I am walking with my new friend, Patrick

Heaphy, who is here in town with the Charlie Crockett $10 Cowboy documentary.

Yep.

And I'm putting you to work, Patrick.

You are.

Do you like

Patrick or Pat?

It doesn't matter.

Usually it's Patrick when I'm in trouble.

What do your friends call you?

Uh, I would say Pat.

Okay.

Can I call you Pat so you can No, you gotta use Patrick.

All right.

We're on to Great start.

Absolutely.

And I'm just checking framing.

I'm not looking at this camera, I'm just Okay.

Does that look good?

I gotta look.

in addition to being a guest that we're putting to work,

pat also hid his microphone.

Very well, because I think yours is pretty tacky.

Mine is not hidden at all.

I got a good microphone story.

Oh, tell me.

So what

I started out as a, like a audio guy.

Really?

Okay.

And uh, and where's this?

It was up in Lake Placid, New York.

Okay.

Are you a

New Yorker?

Yeah.

Is that where?

Born Queens.

Okay.

And then Rockland, then Plattsburgh, that's where I started production.

The Olympics changed.

I was able to be a part of the Olympics.

Wow.

So I was over at the 94 games and Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding,

that whole thing was going on.

No way.

Yeah.

So we had like a night off me and the team and we're going to one a venue, I

forget what it was, skating or something.

Okay.

And they're like, we got a call from CBS, or I forget, it was

CBS news net or whatever it was.

Ansy Carrigan's willing to do an interview, you gotta run over and get it.

Oh boy.

And we're like, holy crap, we don't have anything with us.

And how old are you?

Not just time.

20.

So 94.

25.

25. Okay.

So you're just kind of starting out.

Yeah.

Alright.

And we had a camera, we had the, like a basic kit.

No lights, no boom.

Just a L of And an old beta cam.

Or a beta cam.

Oh yeah.

So we put on the mic and finished the interview.

And I go to take off the microphone and she starts to play with it.

And it's a vampire clip.

boy.

And sure enough, she pricks her finger.

Oh no.

And she, and it was like, ow.

And I'm like, Jesus, now it's gonna be me and Tanya.

Oh, no.

So, so what happens?

What happened?

Well, her manager's like, okay, so this is only going to the New York market, right?

We're like, yeah.

Oh no, no.

We're like, we don't know where it's gonna go.

'cause once it's up on the bird.

You know any of the network, it's part of the whole CBS thing.

Right?

I don't care.

You tell this bird guy,

only New York, this bird guy.

So the bird is an industry term for basically when you would like

upload something to the satellite.

Yeah.

That would distribute to all of the CBS stations in this case.

Yeah, because it was for CBS.

Right on.

It was fun.

That's hilarious, man.

Wow.

So you took your life and your hands by biking up Tonya Harding.

Yeah, and I was telling you before, I feel like I have to give a

disclaimer, lots of disclaimers.

This morning in this episode, I was up very late last night at Richard

Linkletter, uh, Novo Vogue premiere and shouting at an after party, which is

why I sound a little bit like Tom Wade.

And then I went home and the World Series game three, went to the 18th inning.

I tapped down after 16.

It was like one in the morning.

I had to go to bed.

I'm a little ragged this morning, and Keith couldn't be here.

So this is a, uh, a little bit of an unusual episode.

I'm not mad.

Ready to start off.

I'm not mad.

Okay, good.

Just

a little disappointed.

Well then you and my wife have a lot in common it sounds like, but let's

set up what you're doing here in town.

I mentioned that you're here with a Charlie Crockett doc that's playing the

awesome film festival, and I figured this would be a great walk for us to do.

Because you are primarily a music doc guy.

Mm-hmm.

And I thought, why not walk up and down South Congress and we can

look at historic landmarks like the continental club here, right?

Out in front.

I assume you've been here plenty of times, right?

Uh,

no.

Really?

Uh, you know what?

I'm kind of like a Forrest Gump kind of guy.

I don't know much, but I happen to step into a lot of stuff

that just happens.

Okay.

Well, this is one of the premier venues.

I would say probably in the United States.

The Continental Club is where, I mean, Charlie Crockett's

played here a million times.

Most Austin musicians come through here.

All the big ones.

You could possibly name Steve Ru Augh Willie, and it is like a walking into a

piece of like living Austin history here.

It's cool.

Yeah.

I wish you would've told me about this earlier.

The truth is a lot of the stuff that I do, you know?

Yeah.

I'm, I'm brought in.

I don't, no, I'm not, you know, a music historian by any, any means.

I don't really have any musical talent.

I did try to play the drums when I was a kid, and I think that's why

when I started as a, whatever the.

Sound guy, cameraman.

Then I went into editor, and that's where I really feel like

editing is, was my real wheelhouse.

So that, that's like my musical ability would be editing.

Wow.

You know?

And did I, am I right that you live in Nashville now, or?

No, I work in Nashville a lot, so I'm going to Nashville tomorrow.

Oh, okay.

Yep.

Do you?

But New York is home.

New York Yorkers home.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Well, so tell me, tell me how you got into this crazy business of

making documentaries for a living.

Well,

you know what?

Okay.

I, I don't know if I make doc documentaries for a living, I

make documentaries and I happen to make money from it, you know?

Okay.

When we talk about this business, people are like, you know, well,

young kids, I wanna be a director.

Right.

And I, I always tell 'em like, how are your sports abilities?

Because it's gonna be easier for you to be a professional athlete than

a working director only directing.

Wow.

Right.

Okay.

It's

Who do you like?

It's, it's hard.

Yeah.

So, um, I'm a producers, there's a

lot of rejection.

Absolutely.

So I'm a producer, director, cameraman, sound man.

You know, I own a company.

I have employees.

What's the name of your company?

Uh, LCM 2 4 7.

Oh, what's, what does that mean?

Do you bleep shit on this or do you go No, no, no.

You can say, you can say whatever you want.

I might want you to believe it.

Last chance motherfucker.

Oh no, it doesn't mean that.

Oh, I

like that.

And then 24 7.

You know, wow.

It's a whole story, but that's

very New York.

I like it.

Punch in the face.

I like,

uh, you know what?

I'd rather what people think about it.

You want people to think about it.

Just think about it.

Yeah.

You know, because if you make people work a little bit and if you peak

curiosity, they're gonna remember Right.

A little bit better.

Right.

Uh, but if they don't think about it, they won't.

Man, I like that theory.

That's cool.

I keep 'em guessing.

Keep 'em on their toes.

Yeah.

And with documentaries I did.

You know, the first documentary I did was actually my last

project in college and Okay.

And where was College Berg?

SUNY Plattsburgh.

Okay.

I was supposed to be a firefighter, FDNY, like my dad, my brother, my cousin.

way.

Yeah.

Family of firefighters.

Firefighters and a bunch of other stuff.

One of six.

Now I understand the sports analogy.

Like if you come from kind of like a physical, you know, tough

family, you could see how Yeah.

That would like filmmaking may not, may not make sense to a

lot of people in your family.

Yeah.

Here, why don't we go this way and we'll get off the main

street here.

So it was about the um, F-D-N-Y-C-S-U counseling Services Unit.

Okay.

About, uh, post-traumatic stress debriefing.

Oh wow.

And so I. Like to tell stories.

We are doing a very serious podcast, ladies.

All right.

This is, we're working, we are flipping around.

Be a part of, you're a part of it.

Now.

We're working really hard here, you know.

Would you guys mind holding this camera?

My arm's getting tired.

So that was my first documentary, obviously close.

To my heart.

Yeah.

It was about firefighters, you're saying?

Yeah, it was about the firefighters and the post-traumatic stress debriefing.

So what would happen is if you're a firefighter like my brother and dad, yeah.

You run into a lot of situations where you know what the truth is.

I think fear of death, you know, when you're being a firefighter or a

cop or any kind of first responder.

You know, it's always there, but I think it's more of a concern

for the people who love you.

It's seeing what they have to see.

Yeah.

You know, people at the, you know, worst moments in, in horrible states.

Yeah.

So you don't know.

Oops.

Who the fuck is drawing me?

Oh shit.

Oh, we're getting ready to pack up the truck.

Uh oh.

Yo, what's up?

Good.

Good, good.

I'm just in the middle of a podcast on the street, but uh, no you,

because you need to pack up the truck.

Alright, cool.

Uh, make sure there's a box coming in with some more media that you're

gonna need to bring with you.

Alright, cool.

All right.

I'll talk to you a little bit.

All right.

Thanks man.

Bye-Bye.

Look at you.

Always working.

So we're shooting, uh, uh, Jamie Johnson.

On Thursday.

Another country.

Yeah.

Kinda artist, Americana artist.

And then Peter Frampton, the following week, celebrating 50

years of Frampton comes Alive.

Wow.

Which, coincidentally, one of the songs was, was recorded at SUNY

Plattsburgh, where I went to school.

Look

at that full circle.

That's so cool.

Okay, so you make it a doc about firefighters dealing

with post-traumatic stress.

Yep.

You're in your mid twenties at this point?

No, no, that was, that was college.

Oh, right.

Okay.

And so

then you moved to the city After that?

I moved back home, got a job selling cars at Man Manhattan Jeep Eagle

on 11th Street or 11th Avenue.

But while I was college, I was making those wacky cable commercials

getting paid like a 50 bucks a pop.

How'd you figure out that you can make commercials?

'cause for me, I, I'm probably not as sharp as you are, but it

took me a while to even understand that that was a potential

I needed to make money.

Yeah.

And so I, some guy was like, in one of my classes, he's like,

I do commercials at this thing.

Do you wanna do some?

And I'm like,

yeah.

And what are we talking about?

Like commercials for like a local plumbing business?

Something, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, they

really corny, you know, cheesy ads.

Oh, I, I've made a few of those.

Yeah.

But it was like a big.

I think I started out in three quarter inch.

Yep.

With a, with a external deck.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

On the camera?

No,

like a, like a suitcase.

Right, right.

But like a tether to the camera.

Yeah.

Tether to the camera.

Yeah.

Here, lets go this way.

How,

how you doing

with

your arm, by the way?

How's the camera feel?

Good.

It feels great.

I'm gonna, you're gonna gimme a little massage after this, right?

Well, I gotta go right after this.

Let's see.

So.

I am a huge Charlie Crockett fan, and I wanna figure out how you get from New York

City where you run a production company.

That sounds a lot like the one that I run here.

Cool, cool.

Making commercials, making documentaries, getting hired to direct TV shows,

kind of figuring it out as we go.

Saying yes to.

Most things that come along.

So then how do you become the music guy that is filming live concerts and

making all these cool, let's go this way, pat making all these cool music docs.

Oh,

this business is silly sometimes.

Wait, you said you can't even play the radio?

Yeah.

Right.

So how do you become, well, I appreciate it's a

go-to music guy.

Well, you know, there's a lot of us in this business, right?

So it just happens sometimes and.

I didn't know I would like, even though I've dealt with musicians from early on.

So the one music guy I know part of like the Jersey sound was like,

Hey, my friend so and so, she needs to have this thing done.

And like, yeah, I'll do it.

I'll film it at this little place.

And the place was a disaster.

Mm, they were supposed to do the multi-track record

and it was a horrible job.

They wouldn't let me put cameras anywhere.

Like it was in turn, the lighting was terrible and I was doing it for free.

My, and so you come in and save the day?

No, no, no.

And then the guy was like, saving it.

Do you wanna just give this to so and so?

'cause I know the mix is gonna be a, I was never gonna do the mix.

Okay.

I know the mix is gonna be rough and that, you know, he also does video.

I'm like, yeah, absolutely.

And I'm like, you should pay him.

And he's like, oh yeah, no, I'm gonna pay him.

I'm like, cool, cool, cool.

Because it was, you know, I knew her through the kids' school.

How many kids do you have?

Two.

Two, awesome.

What ages?

Uh, 18 and 20.

Oh, look at you.

Okay.

I've got, I'm five and two, so.

Oh, sweet.

I'm in the thick of it and it's so cute and I'm exhausted.

It's so much fun.

Hey, look at this house right here, the way this is right before

Halloween that we're recording this and, uh, this is I think, what my

kids would call a spooky house.

It is cool.

I wanna, I wanna switch arms.

Can we switch arms?

Absolutely.

Go on the switch sides.

Oh look, we're gonna switch sides.

All right.

Unless you know that, like that's your good side or something or the other.

I normally am on the left side, pat, so we're making

huge exceptions for you today.

I want you to know you are our first guest to ask to switch sides.

Now I'm not gonna be the last.

Now that they know you flew like that, now that, now that you've

set this precedent, oh boy.

All hell's breaking loose.

Lance is like, comes back to me, he's like, pat, I need help on

this show We're doing, you're kind of no video better than me.

And I'm going, huh?

If he's judging my video capabilities from that, he's desperate.

Right?

And so then, and then he and I started working together.

He would do the audio record and mix, and then I took over the television

side and it just was a, a good fit.

And um, and we just did a show, um, last week in the city at the Iridium with

OAR and yeah, that's how it started.

And um, that's like a lot of the things, it's like, you know,

the opportunity presents itself.

A lot of people, you know, you hear, they get an opportunity and they're

like, ah, that's, I don't wanna do that.

Right.

You know, and they don't know where it's gonna lead.

Right.

And this led me to be able to.

Do shows at the Ryman and you know, with some amazing acts like Little Feet.

So Cool.

Billy Strings.

Little

Little Feet at The Ryman.

Yep.

Billy Strings at the Ryman.

Dude.

Do they play Willin?

That's my favorite little feat song.

Oh, they play Willin.

They don't ever not play Willin,

I guess.

I love

him, man.

They're amazing.

Gooey and the band are fantastic.

Oh, so

cool.

What do you think?

Um.

The di like the similarities are between documentary filmmakers and musicians.

'cause I feel like there's a, there's a lot of them.

They always answer their phones.

Yep.

Well, we got 'em.

This is opportunity ringing.

Hi, this is Pat.

Hello.

All right.

Lost opportunity.

Uh, no.

Right.

It it's true.

Like when I get a call, like it sucks.

Usually like I wouldn't, but I know that in this situation.

It's a little goofy thing.

Yeah.

Goofy moment that happens and you never know who, who's on

the other side of that call.

Abs.

Absolutely.

But isn't it

usually just telemarketers?

Yeah, but my phone does usually say it's stamp.

Okay.

But it was a 5 1 2 number.

Right.

So here in Austin.

So you're thinking this could be, well, I've got, I got, this could

be the next big potential project.

Oh no, I got a good one and I can't tell you about it, but

it's really freaking good.

Oh, is it coming as a result of showing the Charlie Crock Docs?

It's coming as

a result of.

The opportunities of all the people I've been able to work with.

Well, so wait a minute.

This is a good dovetail into my previous question about how do

you think documentary filmmakers and musicians are similar?

Or do you think that,

you know, I, I, I do.

You know, I think that there's definitely similarities, but not necessarily

with all songs, like some songs, but I think when you have a song that.

Yeah.

A storyteller's revealing about their life.

Yeah.

And experiences and influences.

And it's like an amalgam of all that.

And it has the emotion and rhythm and feeling, and I think that's

the biggest thing is feel emotion.

You know?

I, interesting.

Yeah.

I, I, that's what I try to do in every project, you know, sometimes

I do a better job than others.

The, the capturing multi-camera music.

Yeah.

I'm conveying what the artist is.

I'm putting out, but I'm not really part of the story process.

I'm just delivering the images and the sound.

Right.

And I'm cool with that.

And you're talking about like when you're, when you're hired to film a concert?

Yeah, whenever I'm doing any of my concerts.

Yeah.

Like, like I said, Jamie Johnson will be a multi-cam.

Peter will be Multicam.

Like any of my shows, if you look at 'em online, there's dozens of them.

Yeah.

You'll see what they are.

And then what I like to do is.

Interview 'em.

And some artists are more receptive to that than others.

And then once you can get in there and kind of pull out the story and

weave it together with their music like we were able to do with Charlie.

Yeah.

You know, Charlie, that one's a time capsule.

That's just a moment.

I'm glad you

brought us to talking about Charlie.

So how did the Charlie, do you consider it a documentary or do

you consider it a concert film for I, I call it a docu music film.

A docu music film.

What is the

definition of a docu music film film to you?

I, that's Charlie's 10 dog Cowboy.

Okay.

Or this thing I did with Dave Stewart or Craig Harris,

or, so it's a live performance Yeah.

Intercut with interviews.

Yeah.

And is there some B roll?

Like do we go to his house or on the two of us?

Not, not, not with Charlie's.

Yeah.

You're on the tour bus a lot with, with Charlie.

Okay.

It really, you know, it depends.

Some documentaries you're making a day.

Yeah.

Some.

Can take you 30 years.

I don't necessarily want the attention for you as a director, you're saying?

Yeah.

Like, but me telling the story, yeah.

I like this 'cause we're just shooting the shit.

Yeah.

My arms doing this.

I'm doing work for you.

Uh, you're not getting paid.

Not getting paid.

Which just like a lot of my music projects too.

So there's a lot of similarities.

Do you know where we're walking here by the way?

Nope.

Idea.

We're going somewhere.

Very intentional.

I'm just checking my framing when I look at that.

Hey, look how handsome you look.

Well, actually I think I'm doing most of the work over here, but

we're gonna have to, we're gonna cut that part out.

We're gonna have to have some, no, we leave, we can't.

Oh, you know what?

That's one thing with, with the Charlie doc, like, I really left things go long.

I let him go.

But he's so, he is a very good communicator and he

seems like a huge character.

He is.

He, he is.

He's a Here.

I want you to look right in here.

Force to be reckoned with.

Do you see?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Do you see where we are?

Yeah.

Very cool.

And why we came over here.

Very cool.

So what do you know about this place?

Nothing really.

This is Arlan Studios.

This is where Charlie is recorded.

This was Willie's studio back in the day.

This is now owned by Ray Benson and asleep at the wheel.

This is like the Austin studio, right?

What do they

say in like the political thing when you do an interview

and it's a a gotcha moment.

I told you I'm not an academic about any of this stuff.

So this compound right here, everything that you see that

is now like, is that, was it?

Was that.

Apartment where Willie lived.

Willie used to own this whole sort of block right here, and it was like

where the musicians would come and crash and they were in these like

little bungalows and it was just a total like musicians paradise slash

probably kind of a hell hole, honestly.

But it was managed by Willie and his people.

Awesome.

And this is kind of like the epicenter of why so many people know about

Austin and love and admire it.

That's awesome.

You know what, I got

a wacky story, so I've been lucky enough to do a lot of

stuff with the Springsteen camp.

The Springsteen archives.

Yeah.

You made the Nebraska Well, I, I made the, uh, Nebraska Celebration

Words and Music, which aired on PBS.

Cool.

Which was essentially the author kind of going through delivering me from nowhere.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

And that's actually where the, the film really started to get.

The possibility of being produced.

Warren

Zanes?

Is that the author's name?

Yeah,

we, we will cut that part out.

That was it.

Americana Fest and uh, and that was fucking awesome, you know.

Yeah.

Nobody, you know, nobody knew Noah Kahn.

Really?

Right.

Okay.

So I'm interviewing all these guys just totally on the fly.

I dunno if you saw it.

I've got a version of it.

That's just my version.

No, I wanna see it.

And Eric Church.

Lucinda Williams.

All 'em.

So they're all, we convert this suite into a video village.

Wow.

And we had no time.

We like to do it.

This is like all this stuff.

It's, and it's kinda like a stage, you know, reading that we had to

change over the ax in between the reading, you know, with the vans,

the Lumineers, all these guys.

Okay.

So I grabbed the Lumineers at one point.

I'm like, come on down.

And they're like, where are we going?

And we're walking past all the people that are lined up, like going,

we're going next to the dumpster.

We're gonna do our little interview there.

And then my line producer and kind of production manager or

ad was like, pat doors are open.

We gotta go.

And I'm like, I gotta get Noah.

Don't get Noah.

I like to rub this in his nose, rub his nose in this all the time.

He's like, nobody knows him.

I'm like, my kids do, dude.

Like that's the one they were interested in in this whole show, right?

You can't go home and disappoint your kids.

Yeah, no.

My kids are on the pulse of all these new, of

these new

acts.

Yeah.

And like a couple, few weeks, maybe a month later, he was on Saturday Night Live

and that's when all of us old buggers.

Wow.

And I was, we were trying to do something with him when he was

in Ireland, but he just blew up.

And I joke we get him coming up and coming down, but.

Uh,

um.

That's cool.

Yeah.

And I know I read in your bio that you have an Irish connection too, right?

Like didn't, didn't you work with or on a project that was funded?

Got some Irish

Well, I financing, well, I have a like a digital agency too, and so I did a

joint venture with an Irish company.

I'm a dual Irish American citizen.

You know, you got a hedge who knows?

You're hustling.

I love it.

You don't know.

Every day could be the last day you produce something.

Or direct something.

Hmm.

Because the opportunities, you're as good as your your last project.

And while I'm lucky things are going in the right direction, I

realize that, you know, at the end of the day, you gotta make sure

that there's something out there.

And that joint venture actually allowed me to focus more on

television and film and let.

My new partners deal with all the digital side.

Cool.

Okay.

So it's like growth, but allowing me to actually contract my focus.

I feel like the name of this episode should be Opportunity

Calls with Pat Heaphy.

What do you think?

I kind of get it.

You're leaning into the phone, your phone's blowing up, you're saying Yes.

You got, you got multiple lines in the water.

You're hustling.

I love it.

What

would they do?

I'm lucky.

I've got good folks that work with me Let, and I try to give them.

You know the room to do what they do.

Yeah.

Like my, my, my editor Lenon Ian, you know, those are the, he is

somebody who's in the background that nobody knows, but man, I couldn't do

without him.

So making is a team sport.

Like, that's arguably the most important thing is like getting

the right people around you to help you realize your vision.

You know and make projects happen with you.

Yeah.

But you also gotta make 'em happen.

Sometimes that means doing it all on your own in the beginning, like shooting it.

Right?

Like there's a lot of stuff I've just shot right On my own.

Somebody doesn't see it, what I'm going for, and it's like, okay, it Well, here,

let me show you a proof of concept.

Yeah, well you know, it's like, I'll tell you about Lenin's.

I mentioned this some docs you making a day to my nine 11 doc.

I shot it on nine 11 as I walked from my office on fifth Avenue down to round zero.

Wow.

Here,

let's stop here for a second.

This is a nice little backdrop here.

And, um, okay, so, so yeah, I read about this.

You were in New York on nine 11.

Yep.

Nine 11 happens.

And then what do you do?

I was curious.

I didn't know what the fuck was happening.

Yeah.

So I grabbed the camera, an old PD one 50.

Yep.

And just started asking people on the, on the side of the road what

was happening, listening in on car.

Radios like we didn't know.

And it's on Amazon if you want to like, feel like you're, we're on the ground.

Yeah.

A nine 11 witness to nine 11 is, is is something that will let you see what

happened in the shadows or ground zero.

Wow.

And that's what it's called.

Witness to nine 11.

Yeah.

And the shadows of ground zero.

'cause I like to have, well, like titles for everything, but Lenin,

he, um, I threw the stuff on his.

Desk like maybe seven years ago.

Okay.

And like, I wanna do something with this, but what do we do?

I thought we were, have to reshoot it.

He just took everything, strung it out, and he's like, pat, there's a story there.

Wow.

It's a, it unfolds as a total organic narrative.

Incredible.

The only thing that was really, you know, created was the little intro titles.

Yeah.

And the end credits.

Everything else is Wow.

Just laid out.

It's something that I think, you know, when you look at your work Yeah.

Or what you'll, you know, maybe like a, a not legacy, but you know,

the things that will stand out.

That will be something.

Yeah.

That will stand the test of time.

That's amazing.

That's super cool.

Well, we are surrounded by very noisy things here.

Let's walk up these stairs and then we'll find a spot and then

we'll do a lightning round here.

To finish off, I told you

I'm not an academic.

I don't know that.

Well, I'm not gonna ask you actually about, I can't, my hair.

Wait, what did you say to me when, when you walked up?

When we very first met?

You want me to give that to you?

Yeah, I do want you to give that to me.

'cause nobody has ever said that to me before.

There's something about this guy's

eyeballs that remind me of Will Farrell.

No, no, don't be, don't be working them.

I think, I think you could see it.

If you're a little bit closer maybe then Yeah, you should get closer.

Yeah.

No, right.

Don't you see it?

I tell you, you can see it.

I'm telling you, I have never had anybody say that to me before, and I

am gonna tell everybody from now on.

That was, oh, is that

the, the problem with you?

You don't remember faces?

What is

that?

face

aphasia or something?

Yeah, something like that.

I might have that too.

So,

okay, so you're legally blind, so that's why you think, yeah.

Okay, I got it.

So let's do a lightning round here, pat.

Okay.

What does that mean?

Uh, that means I'm gonna ask you a series of questions, but you know,

before we do this, I realize I don't feel like I know the answer to how

the Charlie Crockett Duck came about.

So tell me, tell me that first please.

they, they were talking about doing this release Yeah.

Tour.

And they wanted to capture, do a multi-track recording.

Okay.

And social media content.

And do I have stuff dripping?

No, but you've got a really beautiful key light right here.

Do you feel that?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

It's really nice.

Oh, it's going away.

Alright.

I gotta be fast.

So, um, so we, we shot all that and uh, we did the multi-track record

kind of Charlie's onto the next thing.

He was onto his next album so quickly, and we put it into the edit room.

We've got all the shows cut.

We had some of the interviews and Mike Glennon.

What else?

You know what we do?

He is like, you know, why don't you know, let's, let's, let's string it

all together with the interviews.

Yeah.

And compliment the, the songs that kind of tell his story right along with him.

I'm telling the story because he's such a great character.

Yeah, yeah, he is.

And I love his sound, you know?

And so, but did he come to you or how Yeah, yeah.

They came to us for the multi-track record.

Okay.

And the social media content because they had seen something else that you made.

Yeah, because we, I worked with some, a lot of people in the same circles.

We've been doing this stuff, we got a lot of the credits under the belt.

I'm part of the organization that filmed the Charlie Crockett at the Ryman.

Oh, cool.

Okay.

And, and then I just.

We put it together and I'm like, Charlie, what do you think of this?

And I find some kind of, Hey, Haas, whatever.

Is that what he calls you?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I had to like look that up.

I don't know.

Is that, is he, is he mad?

Is he So,

so, uh, you're such a New Yorker.

I love it.

That's a term of endearment down here.

Somebody calls you hos, that's means like, you're, you're sturdy.

You're like a sidekick.

You know?

I think you can stop calling me hos.

oh.

Shit, you're in trouble.

So I got him down to watch it.

I'm like, dude, I, we came down to Austin and screened it with him and Taylor,

and I'm like, what are you thinking?

They're like, cool.

We like it.

I'm like, Hey, you think?

He's like, no, it's good.

It's good.

They, they were happy, but he ran out the door and we were texting

back and forth trying to figure out what was happening and.

And then Austin calls, Hey, we wanna include you in the festival.

I'm like, Charlie, come on.

You ready to go to the festival?

And he's like, I can't.

I'm

out recording with shooter.

I have a good shooter Jennings story.

I met him in la I, uh, show, ran a show with Jimmy Kimmel and

it was about this dispensary.

The dispensary guy's hired shooter.

So we're at this like private party together.

And I was asking him who's the most like.

Your dad right now that you've worked with, and without hesitation, he was

like, Charlie, Charlie's the real deal.

And he was talking about how he comes in and he will have like most

of the sketch of the song finish.

Which is amazing and in and of itself.

Sure.

And then he will watch him basically like orchestrate the

whole band in kind of real time.

And he was like, that feels like the closest thing to like what Willie

and my dad and the way they did albums in the seventies and eighties.

You know, I would have to stalk Charlie at different places to

keep up with him.

And I

know he's just a road

warrior.

Right.

You know, he's been pretty good.

So when I get, like, you might not be in communication, but when I've

texted him, like when I'm nearby, yeah.

He'll be like, yeah, come on.

So we get over to Outlaw, we do that.

Then we go to Farm Aidid up in Saratoga, not too far from, you know, New York.

And I see this guy with his belt as he is walking ahead of us and it says Wayland.

And I'm like, man, that is a cool belt.

And turns around and he's like, oh, thanks man.

I shooter.

And yeah.

So it was pretty cool.

That was, that was cool just to be hanging out with those, with those folks.

Oh, that's awesome.

And you could just tell, I think Charlie puts that out there almost every day.

How much.

He enjoys working with shooter.

That's cool, man.

Okay, well let's do, uh, let's do the lightning round here.

Alright.

Okay.

So we hope that this podcast is basically for like young

directors or people interested in documentary like starting out.

So what would your advice be to somebody who's interested in

documentary, maybe starting their first project, wanting to do what we do?

Is there anything else

that you could do better?

And have you thought about being in the fire department,

civil service, job security?

Is that important to you?

This sounds like maybe the, the talk that your dad gave you, potentially.

Oh, you know what, it's true.

It, it's, you gotta have passion for storytelling, period.

Yeah.

Above money.

Yeah.

You know, and if you can deal with that, what kind of lifestyle you're

gonna need, you know, and then we don't talk to kids about that.

Right.

You know, maybe you, you know, if you came from a family that you know.

I came from a family of one of six.

I shared a bedroom with two other brothers.

There's three of us in one bedroom.

So, you know, getting going up wasn't as hard for me.

Right.

Or maintaining that same lifestyle.

I think that's one of the biggest things I would say is that, are you

willing to put in the work, eat ramen, and you know, and it could take a long

time, like I've been doing this for.

What is it?

Uh, leaf blowers at the bane of our existence.

I've been doing this for

30,

I'm trying to do the math.

89 I think, was my first professional gig.

So 11, so 36 years, that'd be 36 years.

And, and I was very lucky.

Yeah, I was very lucky.

But.

The first time I was able to kind of have, you know, a documentary at a film festival

was probably 10 years ago.

So that's 26 years of doing this stuff right before maybe any year

work is not necessarily appreciate, we could say appreciated, but

that maybe your story connected.

Right?

Right.

And you're still trying to find your own voice, so.

What is your voice?

Yeah.

And we do have voices as documentary

filmmakers.

Absolutely.

It's not an, yeah, we're not journalists.

It's not like an objective truth, you know?

It's your, your version of the story.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I try to keep the always the truth in, in it, you know?

Yeah.

Or at least the truth as I see it.

Well, as you see it.

Exactly.

Yeah.

It's objective.

Yeah.

Okay, great.

So then what was the film like, the Gateway drug for you?

What was the one that you saw that you were like, this is it, I wanna make films,

I want to, I wanna be in this business.

There wasn't

a film, it was a camera.

Oh.

was a vi visual storyteller.

My sister just took a photography class in high school.

Okay.

Contacts K 1000.

Yeah.

And whenever I can put my hands on that as a kid, maybe 10 years

old, I wanted to take pictures.

I wanted to tell story through imagery.

Cool.

And, and then this was just a natural evolution of that.

Awesome.

Okay.

That's, that's the first, uh, answer like that, that we've gotten.

That's cool.

I like that.

Okay.

Dream collaborator.

If you could collaborate with anybody, who would it be?

Hmm?

In what form?

Like, I guess in filmmaking, like if you could make a documentary

about anybody or if you could make a documentary about, or work with

your favorite director on something, like who would, who would that be?

See,

I, I don't have any aspirations for that.

Oh, interesting.

Okay.

Because

you know what, it's, that has to happen.

Organically, you know, you can't, like, I don't even put that thought in my brain.

I think that every relationship I've had with anybody, uh, in the craft

side of it has happened organically.

They're friends of mine.

Right.

Lemme just reflect that answer back.

'cause I really like that.

Like you're, if I hear you right, I feel like you're saying you're not

thinking about collaborating with anybody different because then that just leads to.

Unfulfilled expectations or disappointment, and you love your

team that you've built already.

So, yeah, and I'm willing, like we build out the

team all the time.

Yeah.

When we did the Charlie show down here, um, I reached out to my friend

Phil Nobert, who, or Nobert, uh, who I went to college with, and I knew he

was down in Vegas, but traveled around.

I'm like, Phil, I'm doing this thing down in Texas.

Who do you know?

You know how, how do I, he's like, oh, I got this great.

Team Clint from Pro Four and um, and I was like, cool.

I met Clint and the whole team from Pro Four and they're now collaborators.

I had them on another shoot that we did in Dallas earlier this year.

So I'm just open to the universe, man, and when people are cool, they come into

it and they kind of have the same, I think, work ethic and love for the work.

I love that.

You know, it has to be.

They gotta be wanting to be a part of the storytelling process.

Okay, last one.

What is the thing that you can't stop thinking about right now?

Ai.

Say more about that.

Why?

It's another tool.

Yeah.

We're storytellers, right?

Every new tool.

I was the first Avid outside New York City back in 1993 or 94.

So you've been an early adopter of technology.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was hard to get people on to Abbot.

Right from, from linear, from ab roll beta cam system.

So you see AI not as like an existential threat, but more of like a, a way

that we can just, I didn't say

that.

Help tell new, you know, stories.

It's like any freaking tool.

Yeah.

This is I think, probably the most quickly adopted technology in, in the

history of the world, I would say.

Right.

You know, my mom is using chat, really, you know?

Yeah.

So when we're looking at storytelling now, it doesn't have to be the final.

Thing on the screen Right.

Or wherever.

But I think allowing it you I to workshop ideas, it's, I think efficient.

I think it's a democratization Yeah.

Of tools.

And there's so many storytellers out there that don't, can't

even get this camera right.

You know?

And why should they be hobbled?

Right?

So it's a great pot and if you're threatened by it, if you think

it's gonna take your job, then figure out what your next job is.

Right.

So it's an interesting world and, but we also have to keep in check.

I think.

You know, it's like the mob, you know, keep your friends

close, keep your enemies closer.

That's a great way to end it on.

Awesome, pat, thanks so much for doing this, man.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

Well man, do you have, how's your arm?

You?

I'm waiting for the massage.

Don't tell me we got him run.

Cut.

Okay, that was Pat Heaphy and talking about his film about

Charlie Crockett, $10 Cowboy.

That I was playing at the Austin Film Festival.

That was a blast walking around South Congress with Pat, uh, going

by the Continental, going by Arlan Studios, learning all about Charlie

Crockett, all about Pat's career.

Uh, I hope you guys enjoyed that one.

And next week we have, um, Scott Ballou, who is a Jack of

all trades, a renaissance man.

He is a documentary filmmaker.

He is a musician.

He was the head of content at Yeti.

He's now the chief creative Officer at Tecovas.

He also plays on our Sandlot baseball team, and Frustratingly hits a home

run almost every time he plays.

Um, so I think you guys are gonna love learning about Scotty b and I

hope you stay tuned for that one.

Thanks for listening.

And if Keith were here, he would say.

Keith, that one's for you.

Block Walks is produced, directed and edited by this guy Ben Steinhower.

Hello.

And my friend Keith Maitland of Go Valley.

We, and we have help from, well, we couldn't

do it without Dayton Thompson, our co-producer.

That's right.

And we also have people behind us at The Bear and over at Go Valley backing us up

and making sure that, uh, that we get to bring these episodes to you every week.

We'll catch you on the trail next time.

On Doc Walks.