EP016 – Ben & Keith Look Back To Look Ahead

After 15 DocWalks Keith & Ben take a look back. Where did we start, where are we going? Walk with us as we discuss the evolution of the podcast, highlighting some highs and glossing-over some lows along the way. In addition to all that, we talk (as always) about changes in the film industry, notably Texas’ new film incentives, and share some enthusiasm for upcoming episodes, including deep dives into classic docs, and long walks with impactful filmmakers, like next week’s conversation with Portland-based filmmaker Reed Harkness. This one’s just us — a look back, a look ahead, a chance to stand lakeside, beneath a spreading live oak tree and express gratitude for the doc life and each other — and you, if you’re out there (& even if you’re not). Onward!

00:00 Reflecting on 15 Episodes of Doc Walks

00:56 The Origins of Doc Walks

03:11 Recapping Memorable Episodes and Guests

04:20 The Joy of Connecting with Fellow Filmmakers

08:50 Upcoming Episodes and Future Plans

12:03 Filming Locations and Personal Stories

16:10 Austin’s Creative Spirit and Challenges

20:58 Texas Film Production Incentives

21:44 Texas Film Incentives Explained

22:39 Squirrel Distraction and Life Lessons

23:14 Go Valley’s Post-Production Expansion

24:33 Texas’ Role in Film Incentives History

26:42 Gateway Drug Films and Personal Influences

32:44 Bird Watching and Documentary Insights

35:19 Reflections on Aging and Podcasting

37:09 Concluding Thoughts and Future Plans

So Keith, so Ben, 15 episodes,

man, can we just pause and reflect?

So we're walking, um, around Lady Bird Lake here in Austin as we do, and you

and I have been friends for a long time.

We've been doing these walks for a long time and we now have a podcast

where we take listeners on these walks and we have done 15 episodes.

And this will be our 16th

city of Austin.

It's true.

Look at this very meta.

I'm filming you filming and you're filming me filming.

Just hold this shot for the next 36 minutes and call it a, call it a day.

And you left.

You are listening to Doc Walk with Ben and Keith.

So today, well, I will tell you today is a good day to reflect on the previous 15

episodes, but it's also just a good day to kind of have a walk and talk without a

big agenda, without interviewing somebody or focusing in on specifics, because

that's kinda how this whole thing started,

right?

Well, the whole thing started with you from my recollection, with you and I

doing this without cameras, without, that's what I mean, without recording it.

That's what,

without an agenda, just going on a walk.

Right.

And it would, I mean, pretty much every time involve talking about our projects,

the state of the documentary business, um, hearing about other people's projects.

And at a certain point we were complaining comp, well, lots of complaining.

Uh, about, we just said, well, why don't we record these?

And I think, you know, I want to teach again at some point.

I think you love the idea of mentoring, not to put words in your

mouth, but like the idea of the podcast sort of came in that spirit.

Like what if, what if we made something that like the 20-year-old

versions of us would, would've loved?

Yes.

And, and here we are.

I don't know if the 20-year-old versions of us.

Would still be less than Would, yeah.

Would be showing up or not.

So we're still two dip shits talking about birds, you know, less birds every time.

But that's only because my knowledge of birds is pretty minimal.

It basically boils down to look at that

bird.

Um, and uh, you know, I had a friend recently tell me that, uh, in

addition to reading history, one of the things that happens as you get

older, as you start noticing birds and talking about birds, and I said,

oh, you should meet my friend Keith.

Yeah, he's getting older every

day.

Every episode.

That's

right.

Ooh.

There is a beautiful cardinal right there though.

Oh, that's what it is.

Yeah.

There's a cardinal and a grackle coexisting.

Uh, the Grackle got run off.

Can you get 'em?

I got 'em.

Although I think we scared 'em both away in 15 episodes, we

have traveled to multiple states.

Yeah, I was gonna say a recap might be nice 'cause we, we went to Sundance, Utah.

Utah for the time being.

That's right.

It's soon to be moved, uh, to Boulder, Colorado.

Is that right?

That's what, that's who won the, won the

challenge.

I did one in New York with Matt Wolf.

That was a great episode with Matt Wolf.

And the thing that I love about that episode is that it was timed to

release at the same time as Matt's recent work, Peewee plays himself.

And so not only were we offering.

Um, a great conversation with two esteemed filmmakers.

Well, one anyways, one and a half the minimum, but we did it in a

timely fashion, which supported both the rollout of the film and offered

people what I hope this podcast really does offer, which is kind of like a

bonus feature sort of quality, right?

They saw the film and they want to know more.

Or they're thinking about seeing the film and this is

what pushed them over the edge.

And so I think it's the only one that we've done that, that meets that criteria.

But I'd like to be doing more of that.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I, I think that's well said, and I think that's something that we can

get better at doing in the spirit of recapping where we are after 15 episodes.

Yeah.

Um, my favorite episodes.

Are the ones, um, like Matt Wolf or like Jesse, uh, Moss and Amanda McBain,

where we are interviewing directors, um, whose films I love and I get to just

sort of pick their brains, bond with them to spend some time with, uh, people

who love the same things that I love.

And, um, getting to celebrate.

The art form of documentary and to just like take a moment and reflect

on why it is that I continue to want to do this work is just personally

very meaningful and gratifying for me.

So that's my favorite part of doing this.

In addition to getting to spend time with you, Keith Mayland.

Yeah.

Well, that's good.

I love spending time with other filmmakers and asking questions

and learning about their process and learning about their projects.

But my favorite aspect of it is when it's a true meeting of the minds and

less of a formal interview, which is, you know, when you go to a film

festival, what makes a festival, you know, so incredible for, for me as a

filmmaker, isn't always the sitting in the audience and watching the film unspool,

or even sitting in the audience as an incredible q and a at the end of the film.

But to me, what makes them really special as a filmmaker are the in-between

moments where you connect with other filmmakers, right over a beer or over

a coffee, when you see the same faces two or three days in a row, kind

of stumbling in and out of the same parties, and eventually you connect.

Uh, in the Jesse Moss episode, Jesse talks about, we asked one of Ben's

favorite questions, which is, what is the gateway drug film that got you into.

This work.

And, and he came out with a, with a left field option of hardware wars.

Yeah.

Which, and Gates

of heaven.

Sure.

It, it was a twofer and that was what was, what was exciting to him.

But what stands out to me was that hardware war, you know, the Errol Morris

film, uh, foundational for so many people.

Right.

And, you know, high recommend, but hardware, wars rarely talked about

in the esteemed circles of that.

That is a deep cut.

That's a very weird, uh, outsider art.

Film a month ago I shared with my 9-year-old son, um, a similarly

themed, less deep, but uh, really incredible cut, which is space balls.

And, uh, and he enjoyed space balls as I enjoyed space

balls when it first came out.

Oh my God.

And, uh, and it opened the door for various other conversations

of space related parodies.

And before long YouTube was offering us hardware wars and I was excited to

watch hardware wars with my 9-year-old.

Which without the journey that has been talk walks, I don't know if we

would've clicked play on that one.

Oh.

So Jesse Moss is impacting me.

So anyway, that's my favorite episodes are the episodes where we break

down the formality of who, what, where, when, and why for our guests.

And we get to a more meeting of the minds on, uh, on, on more equal footing.

Yeah.

Uh, and that's what I love about these walks with you.

Is that we come into these for the most part, with very little agenda.

And even when we have an agenda for these talks, we rarely

actually hit our marks, right?

Because it's easy to get thrown into categories left and right.

Um, that said, let's get back to the geographic principles that have

made dock walks one through 15.

A reality.

So we said Utah.

We talked about New York City with Matt Wolf.

Let's see, we

did, we covered Dock days that, uh, the Austin Film Society, uh, presented.

We also covered South by Southwest, and we got, uh, a lot of filmmakers who

were visiting Austin for the festival to be on the podcast like Adam Ballow.

Uh, Charlie, uh, Shackleton.

Charlie Shackleton, honey Corn Cooperman.

Thank you.

And then with, uh, doc days, we had Avril Speaks, we had Sandy Debowski, we

had Jesse and Amanda that we mentioned.

Yeah.

Um, let's see you, you are going to Portland soon and you're gonna

record an episode in Portland's.

We've got an upcoming episode with Reed

Harkness coming up, which is a great episode.

You know, Reed is the, uh, creator behind Sam now, which was on the festival circuit

a couple years ago and played independent Lens, and I believe he's up on Criterion.

And so this is a little, little prompt.

If you want to go watch Sam now before we surprise you with

an episode with Reed Harkness.

Yep.

And come into it.

Um, with that knowledge,

everybody should watch Sam now.

Anyways, it is a beautiful film and it's, uh, sort of the perfect melding

of, uh, personal memoir as heightened by.

A documentary of filmmaking.

That's right.

It's really fantastic.

It's incredible.

And, uh, and so we did an episode with Reed that is currently in

the edit process that'll be coming down the pipe in a, in a couple

weeks.

And let's see, we haven't been to Los Angeles yet, but that is, uh, forthcoming

and we've got lots of exciting people that we're going to talk to out there.

'cause I really like doing the travel episodes.

Um, it's kind of, um, as a director who also makes

commercials, I get to go to these.

Different cities a lot, and it's really fun for me to figure out how

to, um, tack on an extra day or kind of slot in a podcast recording session,

uh, while I'm on a commercial job.

So, um, that to me has been really fun.

And then I love, uh, going to South by and Sundance together, and I hope we get to go

to some more film festivals and cover off on, on those, like we could go to Tribeca.

There's been talk of maybe going to Telluride,

right?

Well, Tribeca is a full year out, but what we could do before

then is dock NYC in November.

Mm-hmm.

I've even looked at maybe Gotham Week, which is the last week of

September, first week of October.

Have you ever done the, uh, used to be called Independent Film

Week, used to be called the IFP.

Now it's called Gotham.

Have you ever

participated in that?

I don't think that I have.

No.

I have played Dock.

NYC played Tribeca.

At a Winnebago man premiered in New York.

I mean, I've had lots of screenings in New York.

Just never, never been part of, uh, the Gotham.

Yeah.

Well that's, you know, so there are all these great events that we could be doing.

That's been one of the best parts of it for me in the last 15 episodes,

is having an excuse to go out and talk Yeah.

To people or to participate in events that we normally wouldn't.

That's right.

Get out of the chair.

Get off the couch.

Get out into the world and connect.

Yeah, I think, I feel that too.

Like, you know, as, as a working filmmaker, it's so easy to kind of get

into a rut where I feel like I need to be creating that next idea or pushing, you

know, my development stage further along and I can kind of get in a heads down.

Nose to the grindstone cycle.

And that's not always, that doesn't always lead to the best work.

Yeah.

Whereas getting out, doing something new, pushing myself to connect, uh, keeps the

creative juices flowing, so to speak.

Let's look at where we are really quick.

We're under an overpass here with the water streaming by.

This is a really beautiful spot here in Austin, and actually I filmed a scene.

For one of my short films called The Equivalent of Light, right here.

You filmed it on that ledge Right there.

Right there, yep.

And it was a film about, uh, a fine arts photographer named Robert Schultz, who

was temporarily unhoused and took pictures of the spot where he would, uh, sleep

and live in this really beautiful way.

And that series is what started his career.

And, um, he's now.

Successful working photographer.

And so what is the name of that film?

It's called The Superlative Light.

And we shot it, uh, it premiered it south by and we shot it, uh, in

both like traditional, uh, 2D and then we shot it also as a VR film.

And so it's a 360 immersive experience.

So we were going, taking you back to places like this where he, uh, slept.

He was a person experiencing

Houselessness house.

Is that how you say it?

Unhoused.

I said unhoused.

'cause I feel like that's.

What I've heard recently, but I also know homeless is the popular.

Either

way, he was sleeping under this bridge

either way.

He didn't have a place to sleep and he was making it up as he went

along and he was able to rebound because of his, um, his artwork.

And I found that story really amazing.

Um, and then there's also this kind of second half where he, um, discovered

that there is the brightest light in the known universe that exists here in.

In Texas and it's in the physics department at ut. And so his next

series of photographs after his homeless series was capturing the scientists

working with this laser that is in the basement of the physics building

at ut. And so we filmed that as well.

And it becomes this kind of like meta story about, uh, he is on set watching

us reenact these scenes from his life.

Uh, and it's also in vr.

And so you see him like in the background of all the 360 shots.

It's really cool.

I'm very proud of the film.

Uh, and it's a widely available, um, it was a Vimeo staff pick and it was

featured on Vice's Creators project series, and so people can find it online.

Um, but yeah, about that.

I always think about about.

That experience shooting under or filming under that bridge right there.

Um, I want to tack onto that experience, but first I'd like to frame up the

city of Austin here and point out an answer to the earlier question.

The Anne and Roy Butler Hyken Bike Trail is the official

name of the trail, is the name.

And to tack onto Ben's, uh, sighting of, uh, one of his, uh, shooting locations

right here across the way, right where you could see this unique riverboat, uh, over

here directly underneath the overpass.

On that side of Ladybird Lake is a shooting location from the movie tower

and one of the main characters in the tower, Houston McCoy was posted

up right over there underneath.

This bridge when he got the call about the tower shooting,

uh, this is August 1st, 1966.

And in his own words, he was hanging out in the shady spot underneath

the inter-regional, which is what they used to call this highway.

And uh, and he was looking for a place to take a nap when the call came in over.

And he was a patrol officer?

He was, yeah, he was, uh, Houston McCoy was an officer on patrol, uh,

as part of a PD. He was the first.

Police officer on the scene.

And that not only was the shooting location, but the actual location of,

of that moment for him, that bridge, the under the inter-regional there of I 35,

uh, is one of my favorite spots in town.

And going back to what it is we love about doing this podcast, that makes me think of

something that Kevin Wilmont said in our.

Uh, one of our most recent episodes is I asked him why he decided to

stay in Lawrence and he made this really interesting point that

staying in a very small town where he basically can get around easily.

And he has, uh, friends who know the area really well and are very well

connected, enables him to make films.

In a way that he just couldn't do in, in LA or in New York.

And, uh, he makes the point by saying that one of his films that

premiered at Sundance that he's most well known for, uh, this film called

Destination Planet Negro, which is this kind of wild sci-fi movie.

He made that for $7,000.

And largely he was able to do that because he lived in a place like Lawrence,

Kansas, and he was able to convince.

His community that they could all band together and make this cool thing.

And I feel that way about Austin and we live in a, what is now a pretty

big city, but it still has that sort of feeling where things are possible.

And we can get people together around a vision to go create a film or be in

a band or put on a show of some kind.

And that spirit is really strong here.

Well, that spirit is historically really strong here.

It has become harder and harder to, to engage that spirit as a $7,000

will take you a lot, lot, lot less far than it used to, right?

$7,000 is one of those like pivotal film numbers.

Uh, Austin Homegrown, um, success story, Robert Rodriguez, famously

is that what he made El Mariachi.

El Mariachi was, was made for $7,000.

Of course it was shot.

South of the border, but, but conceived of and edited here in Austin and

launched from Austin and Right.

He's still got a major studio operation.

About what, four miles from here?

Yep.

The road of Troublemaker Studios.

And he's

a great example of that.

Same thing.

He's working with much bigger budgets.

Oh, whoa.

Check this out.

Look

what you got, Ben.

Look at that.

Great big.

Oh yeah.

Turkey vulture right there.

Nestled in that tree.

Just waiting for its next prey.

Who?

Well, it's a little dead carion, right?

Yes.

He's a scrounger and not a predator, but that's my 9-year-old will point out for

Oh, is that right?

So he wouldn't, so he would be waiting for something to die?

That's right.

Yes.

He's, he's not gonna do the dirty work.

That's right.

He's more of a, he's more of a distributor rather than a content creator.

Oh, wow.

Way did, way did to put it in, uh, indie film terms.

You know, I've gotta keep this podcast relevant any way I can because not

everybody is, as into the birds have discovered through errant, sideways

remarks below these many episodes.

Um, yeah.

So $7,000 doesn't take you quite as far as it used to.

And like one of the things that made Austen such an incredible landing spot.

For kind of third coast artists and creatives from, you know, really like 1970

through about 2010 was affordable rent.

Mm-hmm.

You know, that was a place that you could come and hold down a part-time job

and, uh, and have enough time and enough hours in the day to, to create, to write,

to conceive, to chase those dreams.

And, uh, and it was a legitimate option for people who didn't want

to jump into the fray in, you know, New York and Los Angeles.

Um, I think it's still an option as a third coast location, but what I

see from the young people moving to town that comes sometimes through my

shop to looking for work is that, you know, rents have, have really jumped.

And the idea of being, you know, kind of a. Subsistence level creator, like

working off of, off of low budget, low income, and creating low budget

work is not what it used to be.

Um, and so I think this new generation has a series of challenges.

We've always got challenges in this business, but I think the,

the upcoming generation has a series of challenges that maybe we.

Didn't recognize at the time.

Yeah.

Um, well, and that's interesting to hear, especially in light of, you

were talking about what's different since we started this podcast, to

me, one of the main differences.

And it's very exciting is that, uh, the legislature or state legislature here just

passed the largest incentive package for film production in the state's history.

Come make movies in Texas this

year.

Come make movies in Texas and already, just in the last couple of months,

our production company, the Bear.

Has, uh, fielded a request from a Disney channel show to, uh, possibly

come shoot here instead of la.

Mm-hmm.

Um, there is a, um, a jigsaw production that is happening here

that, um, we're bidding to be involved in potentially That was, is chose

here because of the incentives.

Yeah.

So I'm already, and that's to,

to shoot here, to edit here or to do both,

uh, to shoot here primarily.

And then they would take the edit somewhere else.

But, uh, the production part of it anyways would happen in Texas because part of

the incentives, uh, or actually all of the incentives are dependent on, uh,

the amount of money you spend in Texas.

So to get the incentives you have to hire people in Texas.

Um.

Pay for locations in Texas, spend money in Texas and prove that you spend it here.

Yeah, that incentive program is very exciting.

Um, I've got a couple projects in the pipeline for the incentive directly, and

I am using the incentive to incentivize out of state financiers potential partners

to, to collaborate with me in Go Valley.

Um, one of the most exciting parts of it for, for us is.

The biggest piece of the incentive puzzle.

Okay, I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to check out this

upside down hanging squirrel.

Oh, I don't think I've seen anybody.

Oh no.

Oh, you just moved.

Squirrel.

That was a good move though.

Um, respect.

I. Furry rodent respect.

Um, that's how I feel, right?

Is like living in a third place.

So sometimes you gotta dangle upside down.

You gotta hang upside down to get that nut right.

You gotta reach, you

reach for the acorn.

Um, and, uh, oh my gosh.

Hey, speaking of, let's flip around here.

Do you want to go get up here?

Yeah.

And then we can, I wanna get up here.

Okay.

Um, but anyway, uh, so Go Valley is currently, um, looking to partner

with people around the incentive.

And like I was saying, the biggest.

Percentage wise, piece of incentivized material in it is for post-production.

Um, and so editorial animation, VFX mm-hmm.

These are all, um, services that Texas based production companies

can be providing regardless of where the, where the media was shot,

regardless of who the audience is.

And so that's something I'm personally trying to expand on is go Valleys VFX.

Animation and editorial service offerings,

which is very smart because the, you know, all of a sudden I think Austin

is gonna be very, and, and just all of Texas is gonna be very, uh, sought after.

Yeah.

And with that comes its ups and downs.

I mean, it'll be interesting to see how the industry responds to Texas.

Texas is of course still Texas and.

We are surrounded by Texas here in Austin.

Everywhere you look, there's Texas, you're there.

They're everywhere.

Um, here you go.

But yes, that's a great point.

That is a big change and it's a big shift for, uh, hopefully our local economy and

potentially the national film economy.

I don't have a footnote to cite here, but.

My understanding is that it was in the nineties that Texas really kind

of created the, uh, the incentive game for, um, film communities

outside of Los Angeles and New York.

Uh oh, is that right?

I didn't realize Texas was pivotal.

And then in, in, in like, there was a boom in the mid nineties when I was

at UT and I was, uh, I was interning for places like MTV and uh, and other

production companies here in town.

And that incentivized period definitely helped build the crew base mm-hmm.

Here in Austin and central Texas.

Um, but before too long, state legislators step back, right?

And they said, well, we've done our, we've done our part.

Where is the industry?

Woo.

Where is the industry gonna go with it?

And.

Those incentives moved to our neighbors.

Right.

In Louisiana and New Mexico, Georgia, Georgia stepped in

big time.

It's been Georgia kind of dominating for most of what the last 10

plus years.

Sure.

The, the Marvel Cinematic Universe era.

Right.

Of Georgia production.

Um, but, you know, peach, you know, I, somewhere in my mind there is like

a very eager listener who is, uh.

Like real time fact checking us.

Uh, I hope we get to that point,

although be careful what we wish for.

'cause I think there's a lot of facts to be proven

incorrect.

Um, well one, uh, bit of fact checking that we've been

doing in the Go Valley office.

Thanks to, uh, go Valley intern Luca, I have had.

I made a request for him to go through every episode and pull up a list of

every filmmaker that has been name dropped in the first 15 episodes.

Wow.

Okay.

And every title that has been recommended.

Interesting.

And, uh, and so I, I wanna, we're gonna synthesize that list and that's

something I'd like to put out via our social media channels and, uh, and

something that we haven't actually gotten around to so far in this podcast.

But I am desperate to do is, um, a deep dive into some of

those Gateway drugs, films.

Uh, for me it's uh, seven Up.

Oh, I love seven

Up.

And, uh, and the, and the whole series that kind of comes down the pipe.

I would love nothing more than for us to be dedicating an episode or two.

To watching a film, dissecting it, talking about it.

Uh, so would you And Basking in the Glow.

So setting up is your gateway drug documentary of thought.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I mean, there's a, there's a couple of them out there, but I will, you know,

I'm always transparent about this.

I wasn't raised with like a deep knowledge of documentary.

I No, me

either.

No way.

Like a

seventies cinema, new Hollywood type of, uh.

A type of cinematic upbringing

You did.

Wow.

That's very fancy.

I was more, uh, John Candy and all of Chevy Chase's.

Well, there's an inciting John Candy documentary about to come out.

I know.

I am very excited about that.

We need to connect, we need to connect with those filmmakers.

Um, but yeah, so I didn't grow up watching a ton of docs and I

honestly can't remember when I, or who introduced me to Seven Up.

But I know that we rented a VHS of it while I was in high school.

Um,

oh, and you watch it with your parents?

Yeah, we watched it as a family.

Wow.

That is super cool.

And that's a, that's a sign of good parenting.

Your parents should be applaud.

I'm not sure

it was them who recommended it, you know, to be honest with you, I

don't know if it was a teacher at my school or if it's, it's, it's very

likely it's one of the things my brother brought home from college.

Ah.

You know, I will also say like, as we walk past this location.

That we discussed earlier from Tower, you know, one of the most important

pieces of media similar to hardware wars in a, in a way, um, is something

I owe to my brother Scott, when he went off to college, he brought back

like a well-worn VHS tape of, uh.

Of the Todd Haynes, um, film Superstar.

Superstar, yep.

And which is the story of the Carpenters, and particularly Karen Carpenter

story, the Karen Carpenter story rendered with, uh, via Barbie dolls.

That's right.

And it was, I remember that was the kind of thing that you could only see if you

had like a dubbed VHS copy because the carpenter family and their agents and

managers did not want that film out there because it was not a flattering portrait.

It was an unauthorized look into their world.

It made, uh, strong use of the music of the carpenters to tell the story.

And those Barbie dolls start out when you start watching that film, feeling

a little bit like a gimmick and very quickly transcend and in a disarming

way offer a really beautiful, heartfelt, humanistic, um, story mechanism.

And

it's a. That, well, it becomes part of the narrative, right?

Because she was, she had an eating disorder and was so

concerned about her image.

And so to use Barbie dolls to talk about that is, uh,

contributing to the narrative.

It

works on many layers.

Yeah.

Um, but the greatest thing that it did for me was that it showed me that you didn't

have to take a kind of standard approach.

Right, right.

That you, you could offer the world, um, a multimedia understanding of

narrative even in nonfiction, which, you know, that film isn't pure nonfiction.

It's a, it's an, it's an adapted, it's written.

Based on a true story, um, perspective created by Todd Haynes.

Uh, but it's something that like really got into the, into my bones.

Um, and I would say I saw both of those films, seven Up and Superstar

right around the same time.

Yeah.

So it probably was my brother that introduced it.

I'm not really sure.

So thanks Scott, if that's the case, man.

I love that.

Um, but anyway, this deep dive into the Gateway drug films for,

for us as individuals and for the filmmakers that have, um.

That have graced this podcast with their time.

Uh, I'm gonna pretend like there are a, a whole audience of listeners out

there who are actively engaging us in back and forth in conversation.

I'm gonna ask you guys to post in the comments your gateway drug film.

Yeah.

Um, we want to hear from you and what films you would like to hear us do a

deep dive on and to talk about, because I know for me, tell me my, my gateway.

Drug is, uh, fast, cheap, and outta control.

Oh, uh, Errol Morris fell.

Yeah, I was living in Monterey, California.

I had graduated high school recently.

I didn't go straight to college.

I, uh, was, I had plans to be a novelist, although I didn't

have any idea how to do that.

As discussed in episode one

as, yeah.

And I got a job at a movie theater, which was like the indie.

Uh, art Cinemas, two screens and, um, we, they played, you know, all

these incredible films in 19 95, 96, and Fast, cheap and Outta Control.

Um, came through and I remember watching it and realizing that

documentary can suddenly take on this kind of larger meta narrative.

So that film is.

Four individual portraits.

It's a, a scientist who studies mole rats.

It's a lion tamer.

It is a topiary gardener.

That's my favorite.

And then what is the fourth one?

I think it's three.

No, it's definitely, oh, uh, a, a guy who's, uh, developing robots.

Oh, that's right.

To be lifelike and, and humanlike.

And in telling the story of each of these four people and then.

Supporting it with beautiful stylistic B roll.

Oh my gosh.

Look at this bird right here.

Do you see that under the bridge?

That is an enormous crane.

That's a thing like is a heron?

Is that what that is?

Gonna make an attempt to spy on this beautiful

majestic bird.

Let's see.

Is this where Keith loses his camera?

Yeah, I think you gotta bend down a little further.

Oh, that's it.

Oh, and it flew away.

Let's see if it comes out this side.

It flew down the bridge, but didn't come out this side.

Well.

Who knows what we got on that one.

I thought for sure that was the end of our podcast.

Yeah.

I don't think, uh, skip Hobby and our friends at National Geographic have

anything to worry about as far as, uh, Ben and I coming for their jobs.

That is the truth.

Um, so, okay, so as I was saying about fast sheep and under control.

He takes these four individual portraits and weaves them together

with this stylized B roll and archival footage to be this meditation on what

it means to be human and the human condition and, but it's not any of

these people commenting directly.

There it is again, man.

That bird.

Get it man.

Go get it.

Gorgeous.

Okay, here, I'm on it.

Is it a heron?

Is it an EG grit?

Is it a crane?

Is it flying under the bridge?

Oh, there it is over there.

I think it's a heron.

You think it's a crane?

I just said crane because that's, that's what its neck is doing.

That's what, that's, I don't know any better.

Yeah.

Are Wait, you're saying egret?

Well, there is a thing called an egret.

There is.

I've heard of that in a her.

Wow.

Look at that.

Yeah, I think that's a, I think that's a blue heron or a gray heron.

That is a beauty.

All right.

No telling.

Well, all right.

We have officially crossed over into old man territory

if we weren't there already.

We are solidly there

now.

You know, Ben, I am six months shy of 50 years old.

Is that right?

It's a weird thing to say.

Uh, 'cause it doesn't seem true, and I don't necessarily believe it, but, uh,

well, I turned 48 in one week, a week from today, and yeah, that feels old.

And also, I, I'm old enough to be, as Shane Gillis says in my drop dead years.

Ugh.

Like I could just fall over at anytime and people would be like.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I'm, I'm not gonna include Shane Gillis on the list of name drops for this episode.

Just

letting

you know.

Oh, I love that guy's comedy.

He's hilarious.

Um, but I think I'm definitely like old enough to be like, yeah, he lived a good

life if I go tomorrow, but I'm still young enough that old people look at me and go,

ah, you got, you got a lot of time left.

Um, well, following up on the theme of Michael Ted's seven up.

I wonder if this podcast will become a real document of two middle-aged

white guys who can agree to disagree about bro culture, comedians, and

other, uh, aspects of life here in Austin, um, over the long haul.

And so I hope, I hope that's the case.

What do you think?

Absolutely.

Well, like I told you from the beginning, I. I love doing this

and I want to keep doing it.

And I think the longer we do it, the better it will become, the

more meaningful it will become.

Hopefully the more listeners we will have.

And um, yeah, I'm on board for the long haul, so 15 down and 150 to go.

Okay, we're coming to the end of our

walk here, Keith.

I'd like to come to rest under this incredible live oak tree

because we've been talking about.

The linear nature of time, right?

We're 15 episodes deep, and I just have no idea how many episodes this incredible

specimen of Live Oak has offered the world or has experienced itself.

But the sun, sun is shining through the branches.

The limbs are twisting and torment.

As John Slots once suggested on one of these episodes and though time marches on

that's right, we still awake to a new day, ideally in the sun.

Um, I've enjoyed this little walk down the hike and bike trail and this walk

down the history of dock walks to date.

Me too, like again.

And, uh, as always, I love doing these with you.

I'm grateful that we get the chance to do this.

I hope it's meaningful for anyone who's listening.

Um, and I'm looking forward to lots more podcasts together.

Keith Maylin.

That's a good, that's a good way to wrap things up.

Ben thinks I'm cranky sometimes at the beginning of these podcasts.

Oh, I know you're cranky sometimes at the beginning of these podcasts.

Ah, but what he doesn't realize is that it's just a. Churn of creative

energy looking for an outlet.

And, uh, and thanks to this podcast, I've found at least a kind of one.

Uh, I love that.

If this makes you less cranky, then that is, that's, uh, good enough for me.

So, uh, stay tuned for the next doc walks.

What's it gonna be?

We haven't decided on, but let's just make a call and say it'll be Reed Hardness.

So next time on Dock Walks.

A stroll through, uh, the Boggy Creek Green Belt with Reed Harkness,

creator of Sam, now a visiting Port Lander, and, uh, and great

friend and, and even better person.

I can't wrap it up better than that, so stay tuned, everybody.

Thank you.

We'll see you next time.

Zach Walks is created, produced, and edited by my friend

Ben Steinhower of the Bear.

Hello, and my friend Keith Maitland of Go Valley.

Thanks for tuning in.

Follow us at Doc Walks Pod on Instagram X and YouTube.